Arizona Teacher Crisis

Arizona is facing a teacher shortage, with recruitment of new teachers, retention of old ones and teacher pay at crisis levels. Arizona State University’s Morrison Institute of Public Policy has a new report out on the issue. We’ll hear about it from Dan Huntsman, one of the authors of the report.

Transcript:

TED SIMONS: AS A SEMIFINALIST FOR ARIZONA TEACHER OF THE YEAR, BRISTOW WON A SPOT AT A TEACHING LEADERSHIP INSTITUTE, A PARTIAL SCHOLARSHIP TO ARGOSY UNIVERSITY AND A CASH PRIZE. TEACHERS LIKE BRISTOW ARE IN SHORT SUPPLY, AS ARIZONA FACES A SIGNIFICANT TEACHER SHORTAGE. ASU'S MORRISON INSTITUTE OF PUBLIC POLICY HAS JUST RELEASED A NEW REPORT OUT ON THE ISSUE, AND HERE NOW IS DAN HUNTING, ONE OF THE AUTHORS OF THAT REPORT. WELCOME TO "ARIZONA HORIZON." GOOD TO HAVE YOU HERE.

DAN HUNTING: THANKS, TED.

TED SIMONS: WHAT EXACTLY DID THIS REPORT LOOK AT?

DAN HUNTING: WE LOOKED AT BOTH THE ATTRACTION AND RETENTION OF TEACHERS IN ARIZONA TEACHING WORKFORCE. HOW THEY ARE MOVING THROUGH THE SYSTEM.

TED SIMONS: AS FAR AS GETTING THE INFORMATION, WHERE DID YOU GET IT?

DAN HUNTING: THIS WAS A VERY COMPREHENSIVE REPORT. WE HAD DATA FROM FEDERAL SOURCES SUCH AS THE BUREAU OF LABOR STATISTICS. WE HAD DATA FROM THE ARIZONA DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION TELLING US ABOUT HOW TEACHERS WERE HIRED WHEN THEY CAME AND WENT. WE ALSO DID A VERY EXTENSIVE SURVEY, WITH 2,000 RESPONDENTS TO AN ONLINE SURVEY. AND WE DID A LOT OF INTERVIEWS AND FOCUS GROUPS.

TED SIMONS: THE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION, THE STATE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION, DID THEY HAVE THE INFORMATION THAT YOU NEEDED? WE HEAR THAT SOMETIMES FOLKS DON'T GET THAT STUFF.

DAN HUNTING: WE DIDN'T GET ALL OF THE INFORMATION OF THE QUALITY THAT I WOULD HAVE IDEALLY LIKED, BUT THAT'S THE LIFE OF A RESEARCHER.

TED SIMONS: I GUESS SO. WELL LET'S GET TO THE RESEARCH HERE. WE'LL START WITH ARIZONA SCHOOL ADMINISTRATORS. THEY WERE ASKED, ABOUT EXPERIENCING A SHORTAGE OF TEACHERS. 74% SAY THAT THEIR CAMPUSES ARE EXPERIENCING A SHORTAGE OF TEACHERS. DOES THAT SURPRISE YOU AT ALL?

DAN HUNTING: WELL WE KNEW THAT THERE WAS A SHORTAGE. WE KNOW THAT THIS IS NOT ONLY AN ARIZONA PROBLEM BUT A NATIONWIDE PROBLEM FOR A WHOLE RAFT OF REASONS.

TED SIMONS: 74% OF ARIZONA SCHOOL ADMINISTRATORS, AS FAR AS RURAL SCHOOL ADMINISTRATORS THE NUMBER IS EVEN HIGHER.

DAN HUNTING: CORRECT.

TED SIMONS: 85%

DAN HUNTING: CORRECT.

TED SIMONS: BECAUSE?

DAN HUNTING: A RURAL COMMUNITY IS HARDER TO ATTRACT PEOPLE TO THOSE PROFESSIONS. WE HAD A RURAL ADMINISTRATOR SAY IT'S DIFFICULT TO ATTRACT A YOUNG PERSON TO COME AND LIVE IN A SMALL TOWN. MANY TIMES THEY ARE LOOKING FOR A BIG CITY EXPERIENCE.

TED SIMONS: 85% OF RURAL SCHOOL ADMINISTRATORS SAY THAT THIS IS DIFFICULT, AS FAR AS URBAN SCHOOL ADMINISTRATORS ARE CONCERNED, A LITTLE BIT LESS, 77%, BUT NOT MUCH LESS.

DAN HUNTING: CORRECT. THE SHORTAGE IS NOT EQUALLY DISTRIBUTED. THERE IS A REAL SHORTAGE OF THE S.T.E.M. TEACHERS, SCIENCE, TECHNOLOGY, ENGINEERING AND MATHEMATICS. AND ESPECIALLY SPECIAL EDUCATION TEACHERS AS WELL.

TED SIMONS: YOUR SURVEY ALSO FOUND, THAT MORE TEACHERS LEAVE THAN DEGREES ARE OFFERED AT THE THREE STATE UNIVERSITIES?

DAN HUNTING: WELL IN BACHELOR DEGREES. THERE ARE STILL QUITE A NUMBER OF MASTERS DEGREE STUDENTS THAT COME OUT. BUT THE PORTION OF BACHELOR DEGREES IN EDUCATION IN THE THREE UNIVERSITIES HAVE BEEN DECLINING COMPARED TO THE STUDENT POPULATION.

TED SIMONS: WE CAN SEE HERE, 22% OF TEACHERS HIRED BETWEEN 2013-2015, WERE NOT TEACHING IN ARIZONA STATE AFTER ONE YEAR. WHY IS THAT?

DAN HUNTING: FIRST OF ALL, THOSE NUMBERS APPEAR TO BE ABOUT WHAT WE SEE NATIONWIDE AS WELL. YOUNG TEACHERS, YOUNG PEOPLE IN GENERAL TEND TO TURN THEIR CAREERS SOMEWHAT. PROBABLY NOT SO MUCH IN CAREERS WHERE YOU HAVE TO SPEND FOUR YEARS IN A BACHELOR PROGRAM TO GET QUALIFIED FOR IT.

TED SIMONS: AND YET, 42% OF TEACHERS HIRED IN 2013 LEFT WITHIN THREE YEARS. AGAIN, THERE IS THAT CHURN. HOW DO YOU FIX THAT? WHAT DO YOU DO?

DAN HUNTING: WE FOUND SEVERAL AREAS, PAY OBVIOUSLY IS IMPORTANT. THAT'S A CRITICAL FACTOR, BUT THERE ARE A COUPLE OF OTHER THINGS THAT WERE CONCERNING TEACHERS. FIRST OF ALL, THEY HAVE A SENSE OF AN EVER INCREASING WORKLOAD. CLASS SIZES HAVE GONE UP IN RECENT YEARS. THEY HAVE MORE STUDENTS TO DEAL WITH. THEY ARE ASKED TO DO MORE DUTIES IN TERMS OF TEACHER ACCOUNTABILITY AND TAKING EXTRA DUTIES OUTSIDE OF THE CLASSROOM. THE OTHER THING THAT IS WEARING ON TEACHERS, I THINK, IS A GENERAL SENSE OF NOT BEING VALUED AS MUCH AS THEY USED TO BE.

TED SIMONS: YEAH, WE HEAR THAT A LOT. JUST THE GENERAL PERCEPTION OF THE TEACHING PROFESSION IS NOT WHAT IT USED TO BE.
DAN HUNTING: IT COMES ON SEVERAL LEVELS, ALL THE WAY FROM PARENTS. TEACHERS WOULD TELL ME ABOUT SENDING HOME A BAD REPORT CARD WITH A KID AND THE PARENTS CALLING THEM UP AND CURSING THEM OUT ON THE PHONE. OBVIOUSLY, THAT DOESN'T MAKE YOUR JOB ANY EASIER.

TED SIMONS: NOT AT ALL. AND ANY IDEA OF CHARTER SCHOOLS AS MAYNE BEING A LITTLE MORE STABLE AS TEACHERS ARE CONCERNED, FORGET THAT. YOUR SURVEY SHOWS 52% OF ARIZONA CHARTER SCHOOL, TEACHERS HIRED IN 2013 LEFT WITHIN THREE YEARS. THAT IS MORE THAN THE PUBLIC SCHOOLS.

DAN HUNTING: THAT IS SOMEWHAT TO BE EXPECTED.

TED SIMONS: IT IS? HOW COME?

DAN HUNTING: THERE IS EVIDENCE THAT SHOWS THAT WHEN YOU RELAX TEACHER CREDENTIALING REQUIREMENTS, THAT THOSE TEACHERS TEND NOT TO STAY IN THE PROFESSION AS LONG.

TED SIMONS: WE JUST HAD THE GOVERNOR ON LAST NIGHT, AND WE TALKED ABOUT ONE OF HIS SIGNATURE PLANS AS FAR AS EDUCATION IS CONCERNED. IS TO EASE THAT TEACHING REQUIREMENT. IT HAS PASSED THE LEGISLATOR HE'S ALL FOR IT. YOU'RE SAYING THAT COULD MEAN MORE CHURN?

DAN HUNTING: IT MAY. THAT BILL IS AN EXAMPLE OF THE COMPLEXITY OF THIS ISSUE. THE GOVERNOR IS OBVIOUSLY WAS FOR THIS BILL. STATE SUPERINTENDENT OF PUBLIC INSTRUCTION, DIANE DOUGLAS WAS OPPOSED TO IT. SHE FEELS IT'S INAPPROPRIATE TO LOWER THOSE CREDENTIALS. WHAT THESE RELAXED CREDENTIALS MAY DO, IS GET BODIES INTO THE CLASSROOM IN A SHORT TERM BUT STUDIES SAY THOSE STUDENTS THAT COME IN UNDER ALTERNATE CREDENTIALING MECHANISMS THEY TEND TO LEAVE TWO OR THREE TIMES THE RATE OF REGULAR TEACHERS.

TED SIMONS: THAT'S INTERESTING. LET'S TALK ABOUT SALARIES. WE'VE KIND OF HIT IT IN A COUPLE OF WAYS HERE, REFERRED TO IT. YOUR SURVEY SHOWED WHEN YOU ADJUST FOR COST OF LIVING, ARIZONA ELEMENTARY SCHOOL TEACHER PAY LOWEST IN THE NATION. HIGH SCHOOL TEACHER PAY 49TH IN 50 STATES. WHAT'S GOING ON HERE?

DAN HUNTING: WELL, A COUPLE OF THINGS, THAT SHOULDN'T COME AS MUCH OF A SURPRISE. ARIZONA'S SCHOOL FUNDING IS 30% BELOW THE NATIONAL AVERAGE. SINCE SALARIES AND BUDGETS MAKE UP 80% OF SCHOOL EXPENDITURES, YOU EXPECT WE'D HAVE LOW SPENDING. THE OTHER THING I THINK THAT IS SIGNIFICANT, ARE LOW TEACHER SALARIES ARE A RESULT OF THE CHURN IN THE TEACHING WORKFORCE. WE HAVE OVER A THIRD OF OUR TEACHERS HAVE LESS THAN FIVE YEARS EXPERIENCE IN THE CLASSROOM. WE ARE ESSENTIALLY PAYING EVERYONE ENTRY LEVEL WAGES ON THIS. IF WE WERE TO REDUCE THE TURNOVER IN THE TEACHING PROFESSION, WE ACTUALLY SEE SALARIES START TO RISE. BECAUSE PEOPLE WOULD BE MORE EXPERIENCED AND YOUR WOULD PAY MORE EXPERIENCED PEOPLE MORE MONEY.

TED SIMONS: ISN'T THAT INTERESTING. BECAUSE OF THE CHURN, THE SALARIES ARE LOW. YOU HAVE A LOT OF BEGINNING AND ENTRY LEVEL SALARIES. AS FAR AS SALARIES ARE CONCERNED, WHEN YOU ADJUST FOR INFLATION, PEOPLE SAY YOU ARE GETTING MORE MONEY. BUT WHEN YOU ADJUST FOR INFLATION, YOUR STUDY SHOWS ELEMENTARY SCHOOL TEACHERS 11% LESS THAN IN 2001, SECONDARY TEACHERS 10% LESS. THAT DOESN'T SOUND LIKE WE ARE ON THE RIGHT TRACK AS FAR AS TEACHER PAY IS CONCERNED.

DAN HUNTING: WE ARE A LOW-PAY STATE. NO DOUBT ABOUT THAT. SOME OF THAT DECREASE IS BECAUSE WE HAVE NOT GIVEN TEACHER RAISES TO MEET THE COST OF INFLATION. I DON'T THINK THERE ARE VERY MANY TEACHER IN THE STATE THAT HAVE ACTUALLY RECEIVED A PAY CUT IN THAT TIME, BUT THE DROP IN SALARY IS PROBABLY LARGELY A RESULT OF THAT CHURN WE ARE SEEING.

TED SIMONS: WHEN INFLATION GOES UP AND YOU DON'T GET MUCH OF A RAISE, THERE YOU GO. REAL QUICKLY BEFORE YOU GO. REGARDING DIVERSITY. YOU LOOKED AT THAT AS WELL. 14% OF ARIZONA TEACHERS ARE LATINO. 44% OF THE STUDENTS ARE SUCH. 78% OF ARIZONA TEACHERS ARE WHITE COMPARED WITH 41% K-12 STUDENTS. THAT'S AN IMBALANCE.

DAN HUNTING: THAT IS AN IMBALANCE. I THINK THERE IS AN OPPORTUNITY THERE THAT WE NEED TO THINK ABOUT HOW WE CAN MAKE TEACHING AN ATTRACTIVE PROFESSION TO OUR LATINO STUDENTS THAT ARE COMING UP THROUGH THE SYSTEM RIGHT NOW. THAT'S SOMETHING WE HAVE TO LOOK AT.

TED SIMONS: TAKE THE STUDY AS A WHOLE, PAY IS NOT WHAT IT COULD BE. DIVERSITY QUITE NOT WHAT IT COULD BE. WHAT DO WE TAKE FROM THIS STUDY?

DAN HUNTING: ONE THING THAT WE NEED TO REMEMBER HERE, THERE IS GLOOM AND DOOM, OBVIOUSLY, BUT IT WAS VERY CLEAR IN GOING THROUGH THIS, THE PASSION THAT TEACHERS HAVE FOR THEIR PROFESSION. DESPITE ALL OF THE BAD NUMBERS HERE, 69% OF THE TEACHERS SAY THEY ARE SATISFIED OR VERY SATISFIED WITH THEIR CAREERS. THEY ARE WORKING UNDER DIFFICULT CIRCUMSTANCES AND DOING A PRETTY GOOD JOB. ALTHOUGH WE HAVE ROCK BOTTOM FUNDING FOR EDUCATION, LIKE WE SAID BOTTOM OF THE BARREL SALARIES, OUR PERFORMANCE ISN'T BAD. WE ARE BELOW AVERAGE IN MOST AREAS, JUST A LITTLE BELOW AVERAGE. THE NUMBERS ARE TRENDING IN THE RIGHT PLACE.

TED SIMONS: I WAS GOING TO SAY. THEY ARE IMPROVING, ARE THEY NOT?
DAN HUNTING: WE ARE THE ONLY STATE IN THE NATION THAT HAS SEEN STATISTICALLY SIGNIFICANT IMPROVEMENTS IN ALL THE AREAS OF THE NAPE SCORES.

TED SIMONS: LAST QUESTION, WE HEAR A LOT THAT ADMINISTRATIVE SALARIES, TOO HIGH. TEACHER SALARIES, TOO LOW. YOUR THOUGHTS ON THAT?

DAN HUNTING: IT'S AN EASY SOLUTION TO SAY, LET'S MOVE MONEY OUT OF ADMINISTRATION SUPPORT INTO THE CLASS ROOM. THERE IS A CONCERN THAT, THAT MAY BACKFIRE IF YOU THINK ABOUT LETTING GO OF AN ASSISTANT PRINCIPAL IN CHARGE OF ATTENDANCE FOR INSTANCE, MOVING HIS SALARY INTO THE CLASSROOM, DISTRIBUTING IT AMONGST THE TEACHERS IN THE SCHOOL. HIS DUTIES WON'T GO AWAY. THE TEACHERS ARE GOING TO BE FACED WITH AN INCREASE WORKLOAD TO TAKE CARE OF THE ATTENDANCE PROBLEM. AND THAT WORKLOAD IS ALMOST AS IMPORTANT TO THEM AS THE PAY.

TED SIMONS: WELCOME TO THE CHURN, THEN AGAIN RIGHT. GOOD STUFF. GOOD TO HAVE YOU HERE. THANKS FOR BEING WITH US. WE APPRECIATE IT. YOU'RE WATCHING "ARIZONA HORIZON." UP NEXT: WE'LL HEAR ABOUT A NEW HOMELESS COUNT IN MARICOPA COUNTY.