Journalist Roundtable: School Safety, Teacher Strike

April 6, 2018

Transcript:

TED SIMONS: COMING UP NEXT ON "ARIZONA HORIZON'S JOURNALISTS' ROUNDTABLE," THE GOVERNOR'S SCHOOL SECURITY PLANS ARE FACING PUSH-BACK FROM THE LEGISLATURE. AND THE LEGISLATURE GETS PUSH-BACK FROM TEACHERS WHO CONTINUE TO DEMAND SALARY INCREASES. THOSE STORIES AND MORE, NEXT, ON THE JOURNALISTS' ROUNDTABLE.

VIDEO: ARIZONA HORIZON IS MADE POSSIBLE BY CONTRIBUTIONS FROM THE FRIENDS OF ARIZONA PBS, MEMBERS OF YOUR PBS STATION. THANK YOU.

TED SIMONS: GOOD EVENING AND WELCOME TO ARIZONA HORIZON'S JOURNALISTS' ROUNDTABLE, I'M TED SIMONS. JOINING US TONIGHT, DIANNA NANEZ OF THE ARIZONA REPUBLIC, HOWIE FISCHER OF CAPITOL MEDIA SERVICES, AND LUIGE DEL PUERTO OF THE ARIZONA CAPITOL TIMES. THE GOVERNOR'S SCHOOL SAFETY PLANS, NOT EXACTLY WOWING STATE LAWMAKERS. I MEAN IT SEEMS LIKE THE RIGHT SIDE IS NOT PLEASED, LEFT SIDE IS NOT PLEASED. NRA SEEMS PRETTY PLEASE THOUGH. WHAT IS GOING ON HERE?

DIANNA NANEZ: SO YES, THE GOVERNOR IS NOT RECEIVING A FRIENDLY RESPONSE FROM EITHER SIDE ON THIS, WHICH IS NOT A FUN PLACE TO BE FOR A GOVERNOR. YOU HAVE DEMOCRATS SAYING THAT THEY WANT UNIVERSAL BACKGROUND CHECKS AND YOU HAVE REPUBLICANS SAYING WE DON'T WANT CERTAIN RESTRICTIONS ON PEOPLE EVEN IF THEY HAVE MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES AND YOU HAVE THE NRA SAYING WE LIKE SOME OF THIS BECAUSE IT DOESN'T INCLUDE WHAT SOME OF THE HEAVY RESTRICTIONS THAT ARE BEING CALLED FOR BY OUR PARKLAND STUDENTS.

HOWIE FISCHER: HERE'S THE PROBLEM. IT'S NICE TO SAY AND THE GOVERNOR BELIEVES THE NRA WILL GO ALONG. HIS PROBLEM IN ARIZONA ISN’T WITH THE NRA. THERE IS A GROUP CALLED THE CITIZEN DEFENSE LEAGUE. CITIZENS DEFENSE LEAGUE MAKES THE NRA LOOK LIKE WALT DISNEY. THEY ARE ON THE FRINGE HERE. AND THEY HANG OUT THERE AND HAVE BEEN PICKING APART THIS ISSUE OF SPECIAL ORDERS OF PROTECTION AND SAYING, WAIT A SECOND, WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU CAN HOLD THEM FOR 24 HOURS, AN ADDITIONAL 24 HOURS? WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU DON’T HAVE TO GET THE GUNS BACK UNTIL AFTER 72 HOURS AFTER THE JUDGE SAYS THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH HIM? WHAT ABOUT THE STANDARDS HERE? AND THERE ARE ENOUGH FOLKS THAT ARE RAISING QUESTIONS, SAYING REALLY IS THIS WHAT WE NEED?

TED SIMONS: SO LUIGE, YOU’VE GOT THE DEMOCRATS SAYING UNIVERSAL BACKGROUND CHECK OR ADIOS. YOU’VE GOT SOME AGAIN ON THE RIGHT SAYING, THIS BUSINESS OF CONFISCATING WEAPONS OR HOLDING PEOPLE FOR 72 HOURS, WHATEVER THE CASE MAY BE--THAT’S NOT CUTTING IT WITH US. IS THERE ENOUGH THERE?

LUIGE DEL PUERTO: I HEARD SOMEBODY WHO HAS CLOSE TIES TO THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE WHO CANDIDLY SAID THIS IS GOING TO BE A VERY DIFFICULT BILL TO GET THROUGH. THE GOVERNOR KNOWS THIS VERY WELL. YOU’RE RIGHT. DEMOCRATS WANT TO SEE SUBSTANTIAL CONCESSIONS FROM THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE IN ORDER TO SUPPORT THIS PROPOSAL. REMEMBER THEY’VE SUPPORTED THE GOVERNOR ON OPIOID LEGISLATION, THE PROP 301 EXTENSION, AND THEY CAN'T JUST GO BACK TO THEIR DISTRICTS IF THEY SUPPORTED THIS PROPOSAL AND SAID, IT'S THE BEST WE COULD GET. THEY NEED TO GET EITHER A UNIVERSAL BACKGROUND CHECK, A BAN ON BUMP STOCKS OR RAISING THE AGE TO 21 BEFORE YOU COULD BUY A GUN.

HOWIE FISCHER: NOT, NOT, NOT GONNA HAPPEN. AND THAT'S THE KEY. SO NOW WE’RE TALKING ABOUT THE QUESTION, DO YOU TAKE THIS SINGLE BILL AND BREAK IT APART INTO PIECES FOR THE FOLKS THAT CAN VOTE FOR IT. FOR EXAMPLE, THE MORE SCHOOL RESOURCE OFFICERS. THE DEMS AREN’T KEEN ON IT. THEY SAY THE LAST THING YOU NEED IS MORE GUNS. BUT YOU CAN PICK UP 31 VOTES IN THE HOUSE AND 60 IN THE SENATE FOR THAT. MORE COUNSELORS, PROBABLY A LOT MORE SUPPORT FOR THAT. BUT ONCE YOU START GETTING OFF INTO THESE ANGLES, I DON'T KNOW THAT YOU CAN GET THE MORE RADICAL THINGS. AS YOU POINT OUT, THE FACT IS, WE ARE NOT GOING TO GET UNIVERSAL BACKGROUND CHECKS.

TED SIMONS: IF HE GOES PIECEMEAL LIKE THIS, YOU ARE BASICALLY SAYING, I MAY NOT BE ABLE TO GET ALL OF THIS THROUGH.MAYBE PART OF MY PLAN- WE ARE EITHER NOT GOING TO PRESENT OR I'M WILLING TO LET THE LAWMAKERS VOTE THIS DOWN.

DIANNA NANEZ: AND I THINK YOU HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD. HE WANTS TO SHOW THAT HE'S DONE SOMETHING. HE HAS CONSTITUENTS SAYING DO SOMETHING, DO ANYTHING. FOR HIM TO HAVE NOT DONE ANYTHING AND JUST TALKED ABOUT DOING SOMETHING IS NOT CONCEIVABLE, TO ANYBODY. TO EITHER SIDE AND MOST IMPORTANTLY TO HIS VOTERS. THAT'S KEY THERE.WHAT IS ALSO KEY THERE IS, YOU HAVE BOTH THE GOP AND THE DEMS KNOWING PRETTY MUCH THEY ANSWER TO THEIR CHOIR. YOU’VE GOT DEMS THAT SAY OKAY, WE HAVE MARCH FOR OUR LIVES, WE’VE GOT TWITTER ACCOUNTS, MARCHES, TOWN HALLS TOMORROW, DEMONSTRATIONS YESTERDAY SIDING WITH US -- WE HAVE NOTHING TO LOSE IF WE DON’T SIGN WITH THE GOVERNOR.

LUIGE DEL PUERTO: AND SEE, HERE'S THE QUESTION FOR LEGISLATORS BOTH ON THE DEMOCRATIC SIDE AND THE REPUBLICAN SIDE. AND HERE'S WHY WE SEE CERTAIN GROUPS LIKE THE CAP AND ALL THE OTHER ORGANIZATIONS THAT ARE LOBBYING AT THE CAPITOL BECOMING VERY SUCCESSFUL. THOSE GROUPS UNDERSTAND THAT YOU HAVE TO DO THINGS INCREMENTALLY. YOU KEEP PUSHING YOU GET SOMETHING THIS YEAR, YOU GET ANOTHER THING THE NEXT YEAR AND BEFORE YOU KNOW IT, YOU’VE GOT A WHOLE LOT.

TED SIMONS: BUT YOU HAVE THE GOVERNOR ON THIS YEAR’S BALLOT. YOU’VE GOT FIVE VOTES TO PLAY FOR IN THE HOUSE, ONE IN THE SENATE AS FAR AS REPUBLICANS ARE CONCERNED. CORRECT?

HOWIE FISCHER: EXACTLY AND THAT BECOMES THE PROBLEM. HE DOESN’T HAVE SOME MASSIVE MAJORITY, WHERE HE CAN AFFORD TO HAVE FOUR REPUBLICAN SENATORS SAY, I DON'T PARTICULARLY LIKE THAT. AND THERE ARE PROBABLY FOUR SENATORS WHO ARE THAT STRONG ON THE SECOND AMENDMENT WHO ARE NOT GOING TO BUY OFF ON THIS THING. SO THE QUESTION BECOMES I APPRECIATE THE THOUGHT ABOUT INCREMENTALISM. YOU CAN’T DO THIS INCREMENTALLY BECAUSE BY NEXT YEAR EVERYONE WILL HAVE MOVED ON TO THE NEXT SHINY THING AND YOU HAVE TO SHOW YOU’VE DONE SOMETHING MEANINGFUL. IF MEANINGFUL COMES DOWN TO WE’VE ADDED MORE SCHOOL COUNSELORS, THAT'S NOT MEANINGFUL.

TED SIMONS: ALRIGHT, GIVE ME A MCCAIN THIS, OR THIS. HOW DOES THIS WORK IN THE LEGISLATURE THIS SESSION?

HOWIE FISCHER: I THINK, THAT THE PACKAGE AS IT IS, IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. I THINK THEY WILL END UP WITH SOME PIECES OF IT, BUT I DON’T SEE, UNLESS--HERE’S THE THING, I WAS TALKING TO FOR EXAMPLE EDDIE FARNSWORTH HEAD OF THE JUDICIAL COMMITTEE. HE SAID I THINK WE CAN MAKE SOME CHANGES TO THESE ORDERS OF PROTECTION TO MAKE THEM MORE PALATABLE TO THE POINT WHERE YOU ARE GIVING BACK THE GUNS QUICKER. IF THEY MAKE SUFFICIENT CHANGES, I THINK YOU CAN PICK UP SOME VOTES. BUT AT THAT POINT HAVE YOU ESSENTIALLY EVISCERATED WHAT YOU’VE GOT.

TED SIMONS: NEUTERED THE WHOLE THING. WHAT DO YOU THINK? UP? DOWN? WHAT’S GOING TO HAPPEN HERE?

LUIGE DEL PUERTO: I THINK IT’S GOING TO PASS. IT’S GOING TO CHANGE SUBSTANTIALLY. I THINK YOU’RE GOING TO SEE AN EFFORT BY REPUBLICANS, TRY AND MAKE THIS PALATABLE HOWIE POINTED OUT. THE QUESTION IS, DO WE GET ANY DEMOCRATIC VOTES? SO WE HAVE FOLKS LIKE, IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN, SENATOR BOWE FROM TEMPE WHO’S SAYING LOOK I HAVE THIS PROPOSAL, IT’S NOT IN THE GOVERNOR'S PLAN FOR SCHOOL SAFETY. THIS BILL, HIS PROPOSAL HAS NOT GONE ANYWHERE. WHY DON'T WE ADD IT IN TO YOUR PROPOSAL? WHY DON’T WE ADD CERTAIN THINGS THAT WE LIKE?

HOWIE FISCHER: FOR THE SIMPLE REASON, IT PULLS PEOPLE OFF THE OTHER END. THEREIN LIES THE PROBLEM.

TED SIMONS: WHAT DO YOU THINK, DIANA?

DIANNA NANEZ: I SAY MORE ALONG LUIGE’S SIDE THAT CONSIDERABLY CHANGED. HOWEVER YES, WE'LL GET SUPPORT FROM HIS CREW TO BE ABLE TO SAY HE DID SOMETHING AND DEMS GET SUPPORT FROM THE FACT THAT, EVEN JUST THE LAST 24 HOURS, YOU SAW THE MARCH FOR OUR LIVES. THE STUDENTS ALREADY TAKING TO SOCIAL MEDIA AND SLAMMING THE PROPOSAL.

HOWIE FISCHER: IT’S SORT OF LIKE THE OLD JOKE, NEVER LET IT BE SAID THAT THE GOVERNOR DIDN’T DO THE LEAST HE COULD DO. AND THIS MAY BE THE LEAST HE CAN DO.

TED SIMONS: Alright, LET’S TALK ABOUT THE FACT THAT REPUBLICANS ACTUALLY CAME OUT WITH SOME IDEAS REGARDING SCHOOL SAFETY. AND THEY WANT PRINCIPALS, SOME TEACHERS, MAYBE THE A JANITOR, MAYBE A BUS DRIVER, A GARDENER, ARMED AND TRAINED. SOUNDS LIKE THE GOVERNOR DIDN'T LIKE THIS IDEA.

HOWIE FISCHER: NO, I MEAN BECAUSE THIS COMES DOWN TO EVEN WHY FOLKS SAY MORE SCHOOL RESOURCE OFFICERS. THE MORE GUNS YOU HAVE IN THE SITUATION, THE GREATER THE CHANCES THAT SOMEBODY IS GOING TO DO SOMETHING STUPID. NOWM HOW WELL TRAINED? LOOK AT THE TRAINING A POLICE OFFICER HAS TO GO THROUGH FOR A SHOOT-DON'T SHOOT SITUATION. NOW I CAN TRAIN DIANA HERE HOW TO BE PROFICIENT. I CAN TRAIN HER TO DO KILL SHOTS. CAN I TRAIN HER, IN A LIMITED PERIOD OF TIME, TO KNOW WHEN TO USE THAT DEADLY FORCE? AND THAT’S THE PROBLEM.

TED SIMONS: AND YOU’RE TALKING LUIGE ABOUT PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN TRAINED THEIR WHOLE LIVES TO BE TEACHERS OR PRINCIPALS OR JANITORS, WHATEVER THE CASE MAY BE. NOT LAW ENFORCEMENT PERSONNEL.

LUIGE DEL PUERTO: WELL LET’S TALK ABOUT LAW ENFORCEMENT TO BEGIN WITH. MANY OF THEM HAVE BEEN TRAINED FOR YEARS AND YEARS AND YEARS AND YET WE HAVE SEEN THEM COMMIT MISTAKES, AND THERE HAVE BEEN ACCIDENTS INVOLVING PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN TRAINED ALL THEIR LIVES. WE HAVE SEEN THIS HAPPEN TIME AND AGAIN. TEACHERS DON'T WANT THIS. SCHOOLS DON'T WANT THIS PROPOSAL. SO POLITICALLY SPEAKING, IT'S VERY HARD TO GET, IN MY MIND, THE LEGISLATURE TO PASS SOMETHING LIKE THIS BECAUSE YOU KNOW YOU HAVE TEACHERS, YOU HAVE SCHOOL DISTRICTS, YOU HAVE THE STUDENTS THAT ARE OUT MARCHING, JUST OPPOSED TO HAVING MORE GUNS IN AN ENVIRONMENT WHERE, QUITE FRANKLY, THERE SHOULDN'T BE ANY. THAT'S THE ARGUMENT THAT YOU WILL HEAR FROM THE SCHOOLS.

TED SIMONS: I'M NOT SO SURE LAW ENFORCEMENT WANTS THIS.

DIANNA NANEZ: AND LAW ENFORCEMENT HAS MADE COMMENTS ABOUT HOW EVEN IN THEIR OWN BEST TRAINING SCENARIOS OFTEN WE’VE SEEN THIS. AND WE’VE SEEN THIS ACROSS THE NATION, THESE PROTESTS ABOUT THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE THAT INCREASINGLY ARE SHOT IN THESE KIND OF MOMENT DECISIONS, NO MATTER HOW WELL OR PROFICIENT THEY ARE TRAINED. THESE ARE THOSE LIFE AND DEATH DECISIONS. THESE ARE THOSE ONE MOMENT DECISIONS. HOW CAN YOU APPLY THAT TRAINING TO A TEACHER? NOW THE ARGUMENT HAS BEEN MADE HERE AND NATIONALLY, WE WOULD DO THIS WITH TEACHERS WHO WANT TO, WHO PERHAPS ALREADY HAVE SOME TRAINING. HOWEVER, TEACHERS HAVE NOT BEEN SHY ABOUT USING THEIR VOICE LATELY, AND MOST OF THE TEACHERS I’VE HEARD FROM ARE SAYING THAT THEY DON'T WANT TO DO THIS.

HOWIE FISCHER: AND I’LL TELL YOU, YOU KNOW, REMEMBERING MY HIGH SCHOOL SHOP TEACHER, HE’S THE LAST GUY I WANT ARMED. BECAUSE, OH MY GOD, HE WOULD SAY, OH I’D LOVE TO HAVE A GUN YOU KNOW?

TED SIMONS: WELL AND JUST THINK ABOUT IT, IF YOU KNOW A TEACHER, YOU KNOW SOME OF THE TEACHERS ARE NOT ALL THAT ENAMORED ABOUT WHO THEY ARE WORKING WITH IN THE FIRST PLACE. THAT OBVIOUSLY THROWN OUT THERE. THE GOVERNOR'S SCHOOL SAFETY PLAN, THAT ISN'T EVEN REMOTELY IN ANY OF THESE IDEAS THE GOVERNOR HAS.

LUIGE DEL PUERTO: NO, AND THE GOVERNOR ALREADY SAID HE’S NOT SUPPORTING IT. I DON'T SEE THAT GOING ANYWHERE.

HOWIE FISCHER: WHAT YOU CAN DO IS FIND SOME RETIRED OFFICERS, PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN TRAINED IN CERTAIN SHOOT/DON'T SHOOT SITUATIONS AND BRING THEM IN, BUT THE IDEA THAT YOU’RE GOING TO TAKE YOUR BIOLOGY II TEACHER AND ALL OF A SUDDEN MAKE HER INTO RAMBOW, I’M NOT SURE.

DIANNA NANEZ: AND TO THAT POINT, I THINK IT’S VERY IMPORTANT TO RECOGNIZE THAT A LOT OF SCHOOLS LOST THE FUNDING FOR THEIR SCHOOL RESOURCE OFFICERS. SO IF THEY WANT TO GO DOWN THE PATHWAY OF SAYING OKAY, HOW MANY SCHOOLS HAD THESE, LOST THEM. CAN WE REPLACE SOME OF THAT? BUT NOW YOU HAVE A VERY DIFFERENT ARGUMENT RIGHT NOW BECAUSE EVEN THIS PAST WEEK WE SAW DEMONSTRATIONS, I THINK IT WAS AT THE CITY OF PHOENIX POLICE DEPARTMENT, WHERE PEOPLE OF COLOR WERE SAYING, WE DON'T WANT YOU TO PUT MORE OF THESE OFFICERS INTO OUR SCHOOLS BECAUSE IT IS CHILDREN OF COLOR WHO ARE TARGETED MORE OFTEN.

HOWIE FISCHER: AND THAT’S EXACTLY THE POINT. THERE IS STATISTICAL EVIDENCE TO SUGGEST THAT THESE SROs ARE IN FACT NOT COLOR-BLIND. AND SO I CAN CERTAINLY UNDERSTAND THAT, AND THE PARANOIA ABOUT THAT.
TED SIMONS: ALRIGHT LUIGE IT LOOKS LIKE THERE IS ANOTHER MOVE TO EASE RESTRICTIONS, SOFTEN RESTRICTIONS, GET RID OF REGULATIONS REGARDING VOUCHERS-- LIVE FOREVER AT THE LEGISLATURE?

LUIGE DEL PUERTO: IF THEY CAN'T MOVE THINGS ONE WAY, THEY'LL TRY IT ANOTHER WAY. AND THEY'LL KEEP KNOCKING AT THAT DOOR UNTIL SOMEBODY OPENS IT WIDE, AND BASICALLY ALLOWS EVERYBODY, EVERY SINGLE STUDENT TO BE ABLE TO ACCESS A VOUCHER PROGRAM. AND MAXED OUT, IF POSSIBLE SCHOOL TUITION SCHOLARSHIPS. THAT HAS BEEN A LONG STANDING GOAL BY PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE THAT PARENTS SHOULD HAVE THE CHOICE TO BRING THEIR KIDS TO WHERE THEY FEEL THEY'LL KIDS WILL THRIVE.

HOWIE FISCHER: LET’S UNDERSTAND HOW WE’RE GETTING HERE. LONG BEFORE WE HAD VOUCHERS WE HAD THESE STOS, SCHOLARSHIP TUITION ORGANIZATIONS. WHICH ALLOW INDIVIDUALS, AND LATER CORPORATIONS, TO DIVERT MONEY THEY OTHERWISE WOULD PAY THE STATE INTO THESE ORGANIZATIONS. AND A LOT OF CORPORATIONS WERE CONTRIBUTING. BUT HERE’S THE THING, CORPORATE TAX RATES HAVE BEEN REDUCED BY 30%. THE AMOUNT THE CORPORATION CAN DIVERT, INCREASES 20% A YEAR. AT SOME POINT, CORPORATIONS HAD NO MORE MONEY TO GIVE. SO ALL OF A SUDDEN, THESE FOLKS ARE SAYING, UH, OH. SINCE WE CAN'T USE THESE STOS FOR PRIVATE PAROCHIAL SCHOOLS, BECAUSE THERE WON’T BE THE MONEY THERE, LET'S FIND ANOTHER WAY OF DOING IT. WHICH BECAME THE, QUOTE ON QUOTE, EMPOWERMENT SCHOLARSHIP ACCOUNTS, THESE VOUCHERS. AND SO IT'S A LITTLE BIT OF A SLIGHT OF HAND HERE IN TERMS OF WELL, WE’LL FIND ANOTHER WAY OF DOING THIS.

TED SIMONS: AND YOU’LL FIND ANOTHER WAY OF DOING THIS, WE’RE OKAY WITH THIS, IF TUITION TAX CREDITS THEN BECOME PART OF THE EQUATION, BECAUSE AS YOU MENTIONED, IF TAX CREDITS GO AWAY, YOU’VE GOT TO BALANCE IT OUT WITH SOMETHING ELSE, WITH THE VOUCHERS, CORRECT?

HOWIE FISCHER: EXACTLY. AND THAT'S THE POINT. BECAUSE WE KNOW THAT AT A CERTAIN POINT THERE IS NOT GOING TO BE ANYMORE CORPORATE MONEY FOR THESE NEEDY STUDENTS. NOW AT THE SAME TIME YOU HAVE LAWMAKERS WHO WANT UNIVERSAL VOUCHERS. NOW WE KNOW WHAT HAPPENED WITH THAT, WE KNOW THEY PASSED IT LAST YEAR WITH A $30,000 CAP. THAT’S PROBABLY GOING TO BE ON THE BALLOT THIS YEAR UNLESS THE LEGISLATURE DECIDES TO FIND A WAY TO SCREW IT UP.

LUIGE DEL PUERTO: AND THEY PROBABLY WILL.

HOWIE FISCHER: AND THEY MAY. WE ARE ALL WAITING FOR THAT AMENDMENT. SO THE QUESTION BECOMES, LOOK WE KNOW THAT FROM THE VERY FIRST, NEARLY A DECADE AGO, THE FIRST VOUCHERS WERE FOR SPECIAL NEEDS, WHO COULDN’T GET THEIR NEEDS MET IN PUBLIC SCHOOL. AND EVERYONE SAID WELL OKAY THAT'S FINE. WELL THEN WE STARTED ADDING FOSTER CHILDREN. THEN WE STARTED ADDING THE CHILDREN OF THE MILITARY. THEN WE STARTED ADDING CHILDREN GOING TO D AND F SCHOOLS. AND THEY’VE NEVER MADE A SECRET OF THE FACT THAT THEY THOUGHT NOBODY WILL NOTICE IF WE JUST DO IT A LITTLE OVER TIME.

TED SIMONS: AND THAT’S WHAT’S HAPPENING NOW. BECAUSE THE CHANGE NOW WOULD BE, YOU HAVE TO BE IN A PUBLIC SCHOOL AND THEN GO TO A PRIVATE SCHOOL TO QUALIFY FOR THESE VOUCHERS. THE CHANGE IS, YOU DON'T EVEN HAVE TO START IN A PUBLIC SCHOOL ANYMORE.

DIANNA NANEZ: AND THAT'S THE BIGGEST POINT HERE THAT COULD BE MISSED WHEN THIS DISCUSSION HAPPENS IS THAT IT REALLY GETS TO LUIGE’S POINT ABOUT HOW PEOPLE HAVE REALIZED IN THE LEGISLATURE AND LOBBYISTS HAVE REALIZED THAT IT’S ALL ABOUT INCREMENTAL. IF YOU WANT SOMETHING DONE, START OFF WITH WE ARE ONLY DOING THIS OR THIS. WE ARE ONLY OPENING THIS UP TO STUDENTS THAT COULD NOT BE SERVED, FAMILIES THAT COULD NOT BE SERVED, IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS. AND THEN, THEREFORE, WE ARE NOT HARMING THE PUBLIC SCHOOL SYSTEM BECAUSE THE PUBLIC SCHOOLS NEED OUR SUPPORT.

HOWIE FISCHER: AND IT GOES A STEP BEYOND THAT--

DIANNA NANEZ: HOLD ON ONE SECOND BECAUSE WE HAD A FORUM THIS PAST WEEK AT THE REPUBLIC, AND IT WAS MEDIA COVERAGE OF AUTISM. SO WE HAD FAMILY MEMBERS, PARENTS, SOME PEOPLE WITH AUTISM. PEOPLE WHO ARE SELF ADVOCATES WITH AUTISM. AND ONE OF THE PEOPLE THERE MENTIONED SPECIFICALLY, AND THE ENTIRE PANEL TALKED SPECIALLY ABOUT THIS, BROUGHT IT UP ON THEIR OWN AND DISCUSSED HAS ANYONE LOOKED AT THIS OR ANY OF THE OTHERS? AND THE EFFECT ON THOSE STUDENTS, WHEN YOU OPEN UP TO EVERYBODY, WHAT HAPPENS TO THE PEOPLE YOU ORIGINALLY SAID IT WAS FOR.

HOWIE FISCHER: AND THAT'S TRICKY BECAUSE OF THE $30,000 CAP, THAT’S NUMBER ONE.NUMBER TWO IS THE ARGUMENT WAS THESE VOUCHERS ARE GOOD FOR 90% OF WHAT THE STATE PAYS FOR PUBLIC SCHOOLS. SO THE IDEA WAS HEY, MORE KIDS TAKING VOUCHERS, IF THEY WERE IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS, WERE SAVING THE STATE MONEY. IF WE ARE GOING TO GIVE THE MONEY TO KIDS THAT WERE NEVER IN THE PUBLIC SCHOOL IN THE FIRST PLACE, PARENTS WHO DECIDED FROM THE BEGINNING FOR WHATEVER REASON THAT THEIR DISABLED CHILD, THAT THEIR ELIGIBLE CHILD NEVER HAD TO BE IN THE PUBLIC SCHOOL AND NOW WE ARE JUST GOING TO GIVE THEM SOME MONEY, NOW YOU HAVE A PRICE TAG ON IT.

TED SIMONS: YOU ARE NOT SAVING ANYTHING.

LUIGE DEL PUERTO: AND EXACTLY. THAT HAS BEEN THE SINGLE MOST COMMON CRITICISM AGAINST THIS PROPOSAL. WHEREAS BEFORE YOU COULD, FROM A FISCALLY CONSERVATIVE POINT OF VIEW, YOU COULD ARGUE THAT VOUCHERS COULD SAVE THE STATE SOME MONEY IF THIS NUMBER OF KIDS MIGRATED FROM PUBLIC SCHOOLS TO PRIVATE SCHOOLS.NOW YOU ARE BASICALLY SAYING, WE DON'T REALLY KNOW WHAT THE ULTIMATE PRICE TAG IS GOING TO BE.

TED SIMONS: ALRIGHT. DIANA, TEACHER’S STRIKE. IS THERE GOING TO BE A TEACHER’S STRIKE IN ARIZONA. WILL THERE BE A TEACHER STRIKE IN ARIZONA?

DIANNA NANEZ: THERE IS A MASSIVE DIVIDE BETWEEN WHAT LAWMAKERS, THE GOVERNOR, ARE PROPOSING AND THE 20% THE TEACHERS HAVE PUT FORTH. THAT WAS THE KEY WHEN WE FIRST TALKED ABOUT THIS, THIS VERY GROUP. IS IN ARIZONA, REALLY, FOLKS, ARE WE GOING TO SEE A STRIKE? DESPITE WHAT WAS HAPPENING IN OTHER STATES ACROSS THE NATION, BUT NOW YOU HAVE TEACHERS PUT OUT THEIR PROPOSAL. THAT'S WHAT’S CHANGED. AND TO SEE THE HUGE DIVIDE BETWEEN WHAT THEY WANT AND WHAT COULD BE POTENTIALLY ON THE TABLE, I THINK RIGHT NOW YOU HEAR A LOT MORE TALK FROM TEACHERS ABOUT STRIKING THAN YOU DID BEFORE.

HOWIE FISCHER: BUT THE PROBLEM BECOMES, AND FOLLOWING OKLAHOMA AND EVERYPLACE ELSE, AND THEY CAME BACK WITH THESE MASSIVE INCREASES WHICH SUGGESTS THAT OKLAHOMA HAD SOME MONEY BURIED IN THE COUCH CUSHIONS SOMEWHERE.

TED SIMONS: ACTUALLY OKLAHOMA RAISED TAXES. THEY LITERALLY VOTED TO RAISE TAXES.

HOWIE FISCHER: BUT THAT’S THE POINT. IT TAKES A 2/3 VOTE TO DO THAT HERE. IT TAKES A 2/3 VOTE TO GET RID OF THE TAX CUTS WE ALREADY GAVE THE CORPORATIONS, THE SAME ONES WE WERE TALKING ABOUT BEFORE. THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE 1% THE GOVERNOR HAS OFFERED, $32 MILLION, 26 IS 640 MILLION OUT OF A $10 BILLION BUDGET. IT ISN’T THERE. AND SO IT'S FINE TO SAY THAT WE ARE GOING TO GO ON STRIKE, BUT IF THE MONEY ISN'T THERE, WHAT HAVE YOU ACCOMPLISHED?

LUIGE DEL PUERTO: I HAVE BEEN SPEAKING TO SOME FOLKS THAT ARE WORKING VERY HARD TO GET THE TEACHERS A SUBSTANTIAL INCREASE IN THEIR SALARIES. HERE'S THE POLITICAL REALITY THAT TEACHERS ARE FACING, IF THEY WENT OUT ON A STRIKE ON A 20% DEMAND, IS IT POSSIBLE THEY TURN THE PUBLIC SENTIMENT AGAINST THEM? AND THIS HAS BEEN TALKED ABOUT WITHIN THESE ORGANIZATIONS, BECAUSE WHO GETS A 20% PAY RAISE IN ARIZONA OR ANYWHERE?

HOWIE FISCHER: LETS SEE. THE GOVERNOR'S STAFF, THE GOVERNOR'S PRESS AID, SOME DEPARTMENT HEADS. BUT WE’LL LEAVE THAT ASIDE.

TED SIMONS: GOOD WORK LUIGE, IF YOU CAN FIND IT.

DIANNA NANEZ: WHICH THE TEACHER’S HAVE COMMENTED ON AS WELL.

LUIGE DEL PUERTO: GOT THAT POINT. IT’S $680 MILLION IN PRICE TAG. DO WE HAVE THAT MONEY? CAN WE AFFORD IT? WELL THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN AFFORD IT IS IF YOU DO A TAX INCREASE. SO DO THEY DO A STRIKE? DO THEY RESERVE ALL THE ENERGY THEY HAVE ON A BALLOT INITIATIVE FOR EXAMPLE THAT GETS THEM THE MONEY? LETS SAY ANOTHER BILLION, MAYBE $1.5 BILLION THAT THEY CAN DEDICATE TOWARDS TEACHER PAY.

TED SIMONS: YEAH, POLITICS, POLITICS IS THE ART OF THE POSSIBLE.OKAY, A 20% INCREASE. RETURNING EDUCATION LEVELS TO 2008, WHICH WE ARE GETTING INTO THE BILLIONS OF DOLLARS HERE.I THINK EVEN THE MOST STRIDENT TEACHERS WILL SAY THAT’S PROBABLY NOT ALL THAT POSSIBLE. ARE THEY PUSHING THIS WAY? BEING ABLE TO TAKE MAYBE A LITTLE BIT THIS WAY?

DIANNA NANEZ: I THINK THE REALITY IS, IS NOBODY GOES OUT AND PUTS A PROPOSAL FOR THE MINIMUM THEY WANT. THIS IS BASIC 101 NEGOTIATION. TO SAY THAT THE TEACHERS WOULD NOT HAVE ROOM TO NEGOTIATE, YOU ARE RIGHT. IF THEY WENT OUT AND SAID THEY WERE ABSOLUTELY NOT NEGOTIATING, I THINK THAT THE PUBLIC WOULD SAY, OKAY WE WERE SUPPORTING THAT BEING 49TH AND 50TH IS NOT OKAY. WE ARE NOT SUPPORTING THAT YOU WON'T BUDGE ON 20%. I THINK THE REALITY IS IN A STATE LIKE OKLAHOMA, WHICH IS NOT CALIFORNIA, TO SEE THESE CHANGES HAPPEN, COULD THE GOVERNOR, COULD LAWMAKERS COME OUT AND DO SOMETHING WHERE THEY SAY LOOK AT WHAT WE DID IN ARIZONA. WE COMPROMISED WITHOUT A STRIKE. DO WE SET A MODEL FOR OTHER STATES LOOKING AT US.

TED SIMONS: BUT IF YOU COMPROMISE HOWIE, THE 20% INCREASE STILL LEAVES, WITH THE 20%, FULL 20%, YOU ARE STILL LOWER THAN UTAH. YOU ARE STILL LOWER ON MEDIAN IN NEW MEXICO.

HOWIE FISCHER: AND THAT’S THE THING. YOU TALK ABOUT THE COST ABOUT GETTING US BACK TO WHERE WE SHOULD HAVE BEEN AND WITH INFLATION. YOU’RE TALKING ABOUT THE COST OF GETTING US UP TO THE NATIONAL AVERAGE. THIS 20% IS BELOW BOTH OF THAT. YOU’VE GOT A COUPLE OF OTHER THINGS THAT TEACHERS HAVE TO CONSIDER. THIS IS A STATE WITH A LOT OF RETIRED FOLKS. FOLKS WHO SAY WELL I CAME OUT HERE FROM PENNSYLVANIA. I EDUCATED MY KIDS. I DON'T WANT TO PAY ANYMORE TAXES. I COVERED THE LAST MAJOR TEACHER STRIKE IN VISTA. THE FACT IS THEY STAYED OUT. THE COMMUNITY IGNORED THEM AND THEY WENT BACK. AND THAT WAS IT. THIS KIND OF STATE , IT’S VERY RISKY.

TED SIMONS: IS IT STILL THIS KIND OF STATE LUIGE?

LUIGE DEL PUERTO: I THINK THAT SOMETHING HAS FUNDAMENTALLY CHANGED. I THINK SOMETHING FUNDAMENTALLY CHANGED, AND THAT STARTED ABOUT FIVE YEARS AGO. I SAW THE PUBLIC SENTIMENT BECOME MORE FAVORABLE TOWARD THE TEACHERS, THE SCHOOLS THAT HAD BEEN STARVED PRIMARILY AS A RESULT OF THE GREAT RECESSION, CUTS THEY HAVE DONE TO THE SCHOOLS, AND ALSO BECAUSE OF ONGOING ISSUES OF FUNDING THAT THEY HAD FACED EVEN BEFORE THE GREAT RECESSION TOOK PLACE. AND I’VE SEEN THE PUBLIC SENTIMENT. EDUCATION, IF YOU ASK A POLLSTER OUT THERE, IS THE NUMBER ONE ISSUE IN THE STATE. SOMETHING THAT HASN'T QUITE HAPPENED. IT'S ALWAYS LIKE TOP THREE OR FIVE. BUT EDUCATION IS THE NUMBER ONE ISSUE IN THE STATE. I THINK THE PUBLIC IS WITH THE TEACHERS ON THIS ONE. THE QUESTION IS DO THEY HARNESS THAT ENERGY ON PERHAPS DOING SOMETHING LIKE THE BALLOT INITIATIVE?

HOWIE FISCHER: THAT'S THE KEY. THAT’S WHAT’S CRUCIAL. WHEN EVEN DIANE DOUGLAS IS SAYING TAKE THAT .6 AND BRING IT UP TO A FULL PENNY, PARTICULARLY NOW THAT WE'VE DEALT WITH THE CAPITAL, WE COULD GET A 13% PAY HIKE FOR TEACHERS JUST BY GOING TO A FULL PENNY. NOW I DON’T SEE, AT THE MOMENT, AS OF 5:30 ON A FRIDAY, THE LEGISLATURE PUTTING THAT ON THE BALLOT, AND IT’S REALLY TIGHT TO GET IT ON THE BALLOT. BUT YOU CAN DO IT. AND I THINK VOTERS WOULD BE MORE WILLING TO GO AHEAD AND SAY 4/10 OF A CENT WOULD GET US AT LEAST SOMEWHERE CLOSE TO WHERE WE’RE GOING.

DIANNA NANEZ: AND WHILE LUIGE YOU TALK ABOUT SOMETHING FUNDAMENTALLY CHANGING AND SOMETHING HAS. WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT THE IDEA OF PUBLIC SUPPORT FOR TEACHERS IN EDUCATION, PART OF THAT IS AN ARIZONA THING. BECAUSE WE HAD REPUBLICANS COMING, WE HAD BUSINESSES COMING TO THE TABLE AND SAYING TO FULLY GROW OUT OF THE RECESSION, WE HAVE TO ATTRACT MAJOR CORPORATIONS HERE. AND WHAT DID WE HEAR REPEATEDLY? YOU NEED TO IMPROVE YOUR EDUCATION SYSTEM.

TED SIMONS: YES, THAT WOULD MEAN AN INCREASE IN TAXES, WHICH TAKES US TO OUR LAST TOPIC. WE’RE KINDA RUNNING OUT OF TIME HERE. DARK MONEY AND WHAT DARK MONEY WANTS AND HOW THE GOVERNOR HAS SIGNED A BILL THAT BASICALLY PROTECTS DARK MONEY, CERTAINLY IN TEMPE.

HOWIE FISCHER: WELL THIS IS PART TWO. PRIOR BILL DID THE SAME THING, BASICALLY SAID IF YOU ARE A QUOTE UNQUOTE, SOCIAL WELFARE ORGANIZATION UNDER SECTION 501 IN THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE, YOU DON'T HAVE TO DISCLOSE YOUR VOTES NOW WE ARE NOT GOING TO POLICE TO SEE IF YOU ARE A LEGITIMATE SOCIAL WELFARE ORGANIZATION. WE ARE GOING TO LET THE IRS DO THAT. WE KNOW HOW WELL THEY DO THINGS. AND SO WE’RE GOING TO HIDE THAT. WELL THEN CITIES STARTING SAYING WAIT, WHAT ABOUT US? TEMPE VOTERS, 91% OF TEMPE VOTERS, WHICH SUGGESTS THIS CAN’T BE ALL DEMOCRATS, SAID WE WOULD LIKE TO FIND OUT WHO IS FUNDING THIS. LEGISLATURE SAID, WE CAN'T HAVE THAT. PEOPLE MAY BE INTIMIDATED. BUT THEY FAIL TO UNDERSTAND THE SCOPE OF THE POWER. LOOK AT THIS GOVERNOR. THIS GOVERNOR WAS ELECTED IN 2014. HE HAD $7.9 MILLION OF HIS OWN MONEY, WHICH CAME FROM SOURCES WE KNOW. AND $8.2 MILLION OF MONEY FROM OTHER SOURCES. THAT'S HOW MUCH THIS INFLUENCE OF DARK MONEY IS.

DIANNA NANEZ: SKYROCKETED. ABSOLUTELY SKYROCKETED. TEMPE TALKED ABOUT THIS. NATIONWIDE, IT’S BEEN TALKED ABOUT, ARIZONA’S SKYROCKETED IN THIS AREA. . THE REALITY IS, IS THAT YOU SAW AN ARGUMENT THAT MAY FALL ON THE EARS OF--LAUGHABLE WHEN VOTERS HERE SOMEONE SAY, WE WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT CITIES DIDN'T OVERSTEP THEIR POWER. AND YET YOU HAVE A CITY COUNCIL PERSON SAYING SO HOW DOES THAT FIT WHEN YOU WANT TO SAY STATE RIGHTS OVER FEDERAL RIGHTS?

LUIGE DEL PUERTO: SO I MENTIONED THAT ONE OF THE THINGS THAT HAS FUNDAMENTALLY CHANGE IS THE SENTIMENT FOR TEACHERS. THE OTHER THING THAT CHANGED IS THE WHOLE IDEA OF DARK MONEY HAS PERMEATED THE PUBLIC CONSCIOUSNESS. PEOPLE UNDERSTAND WHAT DARK MONEY IS. AS HOWIE POINTED OUT, THEY CAN'T ALL BE DEMOCRATS.IT'S 91% OF THE PEOPLE IN TEMPE ARE SAYING WAIT, WE HAVE TO FIND OUT.

TED SIMONS: AND THE ARGUMENT IS WHAT ARE YOU HIDING FROM? WHAT ARE YOU AFRAID OF?

HOWIE FISCHER: WELL THE ARGUMENT IS, ON SOME SURFACE LEVEL, IF YOU FIND OUT THAT BUSINESS A IS CONTRIBUTING, YOU MAY SAY WELL I'M GOING TO TAKE MY MONEY TO BUSINESS B. BUT THIS COMES DOWN TO HAVING THE COURAGE OF YOUR CONVICTIONS.

DIANNA NANEZ: WHICH IS WHY THE SUPREME COURT HAS SAID YOU DO NOT HAVE A RIGHT TO THAT ANONYMITY. BUSINESSES.

TED SIMONS: IF BUSINESS A DOESN’T WANT TO HAVE THAT PROBLEM, BUSINESS A KEEPS THE MONEY IN THEIR WALLET.

HOWIE FISCHER: AND THE FACT IS THIS IS FIRST AMENDMENT. LOOK I’LL SAY THERE IS A PIZZA COMPANY IN TOWN THAT I WILL NOT PATRONIZE BECAUSE OF THEIR VIEWS ON ABORTION RIGHTS. THIS IS HOW WE USE OUR MONEY. PEOPLE SHOULD KNOW THESE THINGS. THERE IS NOTHING WRONG.

DIANNA NANEZ: YES. YOU ARE ENTITLED TO YOUR FIRST AMENDMENT AND I AM ENTITLED TO MY FIRST AMENDMENT.

LUIGE DEL PUERTO: SO COMPANIES PROBABLY WON’T WEIGH IN ON ELECTIONS. IT’S TO RISKY FOR THEM. BUT THIS PROPOSAL WILL PROBABLY BE HEADED TO COURT. WE WILL PROBABLY SEE TEMPE LITIGATE THIS.

HOWIE FISCHER: AND JUST ONE MORE QUICK THING, TERRY GODDARD HAS A MEASURE OUT THERE.

TED SIMONS: YES HE DOES.

DIANNA NANEZ: YES, HE DOES.

HOWIE FISCHER: THAT IF IN FACT IT PASSES NOT ONLY ALLOWS NO DARK MONEY ON THE STATE LEVEL. NO DARK MONEY ON THE FEDERAL LEVEL.

TED SIMONS: THAT'S IT. STOPPING YOU RIGHT THERE.THAT’S IT FOR NOW. I'M TED SIMONS. THANKS FOR JOINING US. YOU HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND.