As the lawsuit between the Arizona Attorney General’s Office and the Arizona Board of Regents over the cost of tuition moves forward, the president of the state’s largest university offers his insight into how the university provides an affordable education.
Michael Crow, president of Arizona State University, says the university is honoring the state constitution’s mandate to keep public education “nearly as free as possible” and is offering affordable education to more Arizona residents now than at any time in the university’s history.
Crow addressed various claims made by Attorney General Mark Brnovich last week on “Arizona Horizon,” which included an assertion that the university is operating financial “shell games.” Crow says that ASU’s finances are regularly reviewed by auditors and review boards.
TED SIMONS: RECENTLY WE DISCUSSED THE COST OF ATTENDING ARIZONA STATE UNIVERSITIES BOARD OF REGENTS EILEEN KLEIN DISCUSSED THE UNIVERSITY COST STUDY AND STATE ATTORNEY GENERAL MARK BRNOVICH QUESTIONED THE STUDY AND WHY HE FILED SUIT OVER THE COST OF A UNIVERSITY EDUCATION AND TONIGHT WE HEAR FROM A UNIVERSITY STATE PRESIDENT MICHAEL CROW AND THANKS FOR BEING HERE. ATTORNEY GENERAL SAYS AS FREE AS POSSIBLE THAT MANDATE IN THE CONSTITUTION IS SIMPLY NOT BEING MET.
MICHAEL CROW: WELL WE ARE MEETING THAT MANDATE SO WE HAVE MORE ARIZONA STUDENTS THAN WE HAVE EVER HAD AND GOT THEM GRADUATING IN NUMBERS THEY NEVER GRADUATED IN BEFORE AND CREATED A FINANCIAL STRUCTURE AND A FINANCIAL SYSTEM WHERE FAMILIES CAN AFFORD TO COME TO THE UNIVERSITY AND FIND A WAY TO MOVE FORWARD WITH A WORLD CLASS EDUCATION. IT'S A BIGGER EQUATION THAN JUST THE COST OF TUITION, IT'S THE WHOLE THING ABOUT WHAT ARE WE DELIVERING.
TED SIMONS: HE ALSO SAYS THAT SOME OF THE NUMBERS YOU JUST GAVE AND SOME OTHER NUMBERS THAT HAVE BEEN TALKED ABOUT BASICALLY CHERRY PICKING DATA TO TRY TO COME UP WITH THE NUMBERS THAT SUIT THE UNIVERSITIES THE BEST. AGAIN HOW DO YOU RESPOND?
MICHAEL CROW: THAT'S NOT TRUE THAT IS WHAT SOMEONE THAT DOESN'T UNDERSTAND THE DATA WOULD SAY. IT TAKE AS WHILE TO BECOME FAMILIAR WITH THE COMPLEXITY OF 50,000 STUDENTS AND THEIR FINANCIAL AID STRUCTURE FROM ARIZONA IT TAKES A WHILE TO UNDERSTAND THE PRIVATE PHILANTHROPIES WE HAVE AND THE GOVERNMENT SUPPORT FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT FOR FINANCIAL AID, THE UNIVERSITY FINANCIAL AID AND SO THE ATTORNEY GENERAL OR ANYONE ELSE THAT WOULD LIKE TO SEE HOW ALL THAT WORKS WE ARE HAPPY TO LAY IT ALL OUT, IT'S PRETTY MUCH CUSTOMIZED TO THE INDIVIDUAL STUDENT AND WE’RE OPERATING IN A WAY FAMILIES CAN REST ASSURED THEY CAN FIND A WAY TO GET THROUGH THE UNIVERSITY AND MAYBE IT AFFORDABLE.
TED SIMONS: THE IDEA AND THE BOARD OF REGENTS AND EILEEN KLEIN MENTIONED THIS AS WELL, THE IDEA OF CONFLATING COST WITH THE ACTUAL PRICE IS THAT WHAT’S GOING ON HERE, DO YOU THINK?
MICHAEL CROW: SO THE COST OF ATTENDANCE IS SUBSTANTIALLY HIGHER THAN TUITION, WE HAVE THREE NUMBERS ON THE TABLE. WE KNOW OUR MARKET PRICE WHAT IS SOMEONE WILLING TO PAY TO GO TO ASU NOT FROM ARIZONA IT'S ABOUT 30,000 A YEAR AND NOW THE COST IS SUBSTANTIALLY LESS THAN THAT ABOUT 15,000 A YEAR, WE KNOW OUR IN STATE TUITION IS ABOUT 10,000 A YEAR AND WE KNOW WE CAN ON THE 10,000 BASIS WE CAN COME UP WITH FINANCIAL AID PACKAGES NO LOANS, GRANTS THAT ON AVERAGE CAN DRIVE THAT DOWN SUBSTANTIALLY, DOWN BELOW 2500, 2200 ON AVERAGE. WE KNOW HOW THAT WORKS SO WE ARE COMFORTABLE WITH THE FACT THAT OUR STATED TUITION IS A THIRD OF OUR MARKET PRICE, 30,000 AND OUR AVERAGE TUITION PAID THAT IS BY THE STUDENT THEMSELVES WITH THE REST OF THE TUITION BEING PAID BY GRANTS IS ABOUT A 15TH OF THAT MARKET PRICE SO WE ARE COMFORTABLE THAT WE HAVE CREATED A REALLY GOOD SITUATION FOR ARIZONA.
TED SIMONS: I MUST SAY WHEN THE ATTORNEY GENERAL WAS ON THE PROGRAM HE WAS UNCOMFORTABLE WITH THE PRICE, THE COST, THE WHOLE NINE YARDS AND AGAIN WHEN I ASKED HIM ABOUT THAT HERE IS WHAT HE HAD TO SAY.
MARK BRNOVICH: THEY CAN SAY ALL THEY WANT BUT ALL THE ACTUAL COSTS AND WHAT PEOPLE ARE PAYING THEY CAN SAY WHAT THEY WANT BUT REALITY IS MOST MIDDLE CLASS PARENTS IN ARIZONA ARE PAYING MORE THAN THEY SAY OR ALTERNATIVELY BECAUSE YOU CAN GET JACKED UP WITH A BUNCH OF LOANS WITH HOW MUCH LOANS SOMEONE CAN OR CAN'T GET THAT IS NOT WHAT THE FRAMERS OF THE CONSTITUTION WANTED.
TED SIMONS: AGAIN BACK TO THE AS NEARLY FREE AS POSSIBLE.
MICHAEL CROW: RIGHT SO ABOUT 40% OF OUR STUDENTS GRADUATE WITH NO DEBT AT ALL. WE ARE PRETTY HAPPY ABOUT THAT. WE KEEP THE AVERAGE DEBT TO 25% BELOW THE NATIONAL AVERAGE WELL BELOW THE NATIONAL AVERAGE IN MANY REALMS BUT TO THE POINT THE ATTORNEY GENERAL WAS MENTIONING ABOUT PRICE VERSUS COST THE COST IS 15,000, THE TUITION IS 10,000, THE PACKAGE THAT WE PUT TOGETHER FOR SOME FAMILIES TO HELP PAY FOR THE TEN,000 WE STILL HAVE TO PAY THAT COST AND STILL NEED THE RESOURCES, WE GO OUT AND RISE PRIVATE PHILANTHROPY AND MAKE IT WORK IN DIFFERENT WAYS AND RESOURCES AND THE FEDERAL GRANT HAS PELL GRANTS AND THEY CREATE A DYNAMIC WAY FOR IT TO HAPPEN THIS NOTION THAT SOMEHOW THESE ARE NOT ACCURATE NUMBERS THAT'S JUST ABSURD.
TED SIMONS: YOU'RE SAYING 2200 SOMETHING ALONG THOSE LINES IS THE AVERAGE?
MICHAEL CROW: ON AVERAGE SO IF YOU LOOK FOR INSTANCE THE MIDDLE CLASS AND WE JUST LOOKED AT THE NUMBERS YESTERDAY THE FAMILIES RECEIVING THE MOST FINANCIAL AID FROM THE UNIVERSITY ITSELF ARE FAMILIES IN THE MIDDLE CLASS AND UP BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE ACCESS TO FEDERAL PELL GRANTS AND DON'T HAVE ACCESS TO SOME OTHER THINGS AND TURNS OUT THE WAY WE STRUCTURED THE FINANCIAL AID SYSTEM THE FINANCIAL AID MEANS US FINDING RESOURCES TO PAY THE TUITION FOR SOMEONE THAT WE WANT TO SUPPORT PAYING TUITION FOR. THE MIDDLE CLASS IS NOT DISADVANTAGED BY THE UNIVERSITY IN ANY WAY.
TED SIMONS: AND TO THAT POINT THE ATTORNEY GENERAL ASKS THE NEXT TIME YOU ARE ON THE PROGRAM THIS QUESTION BE ASKED.
MARK BRNOVICH: MY QUESTION, AND THIS IS THE NEXT TIME THE REGENTS OR MICHAEL CROW COMES ON IF THE COST IS ONLY WHAT PEOPLE ARE PAYING 2 OR 3,000 WHY ISN'T THAT THE PRICE OF TUITION?
MICHAEL CROW: THE ACTUAL COST IS 15,000 ACTUALLY SLIGHTLY HIGHER THAN THAT THE COST OF ATTENDANCE IS WELL ABOVE THE TUITION WE HAVE TO GENERATE RESOURCES FROM ALL ASPECTS OF THE UNIVERSITY. WE HAVE TO GENERATE RESOURCES FROM OUR OUT OF STATE STUDENTS, FROM OUR REAL ESTATE ASSETS, FROM OUR OTHER THINGS THAT WE'RE DOING, WE HAVE TO GENERATE ENOUGH RESOURCES TO COVER THE COSTS 15,000 PLUS PER STUDENT. THE TUITION IS BELOW THAT SO WE HAVE A NET LOSS ON EVERY STUDENT AND THEN WE HELP STUDENTS TO PAY THE TUITION LEVEL FOR IN STATE STUDENTS.
TED SIMONS: IS THIS A DEAL WHERE THE ATTORNEY GENERAL IS LOOKING AT A CAR AND SEEING THE STICKER PRICE AND YOU ARE THE DEALER SAYING THAT'S NOT THE ACTUAL COST, THERE ARE OTHER THINGS GOING ON HERE?
MICHAEL CROW: NO IT'S NOT THAT AT ALL. WHAT THIS IS THE COST OF ATTENDANCE IS ABOVE 15,000 A YEAR. OUR TUITION DOESN'T EVEN COVER THAT. WE HAVE TO GENERATE OTHER RESOURCES, SOME INVESTMENT FROM THE STATE SOME INVESTMENT FROM OTHER SOURCES AND WE HAVE TO BUILD A FINANCIAL AID MODEL ON TOP OF THAT, THE COST IS THE COST, IT COSTS US THAT MUCH MONEY TO EDUCATE A STUDENT AND WE HAVE TO THEN DERIVE RESOURCES FROM EVERY POSSIBLE ANGLE TO BE ABLE TO MAKE THAT AFFORDABLE TO AN ARIZONIANS AND ALSO HAVE THE DOLLARS TO PROVIDE THE EDUCATION.
TED SIMONS: ATTORNEY GENERAL ALSO MENTIONED THAT HE SAID THAT THE STUDY THE UNIVERSITY COST STUDY BLEW OFF, HIS WORDS, TWO FUNDAMENTAL QUESTIONS IN HIS LAWSUIT. ONE IS RESEARCH VERSUS ACTUAL CLASSROOM INSTRUCTION WAS THAT OVER LOOKED IN THIS UNIVERSITY COST STUDY?
MICHAEL CROW: NO THAT IS FINANCED BY RESEARCH GRANTS AND ACTIVITIES AND SOME OF THE ACTIVITIES OF THE FACULTY. THAT'S NOT A FACTOR HERE. IN FACT, AMONG RESEARCH UNIVERSITIES WE HAVE AMONG THE LOWEST COST AND, IN FACT, PROBABLY WITHIN THE BOTTOM FIVE OR TEN PERCENT OF UNIVERSITIES IN TERMS OF COSTS THAT RESEARCH EVER SEES. WE HAVE A NUMBER OF FACTORS THAT WE HAVE USED TECHNOLOGIES TO LOWER OUR COSTS WE USED A RANGE OF THINGS TO LOWER OUR COST WE ARE WELL BELOW OUR COMPETITORS IN TERMS OF COST AND RESEARCH IS NOT A DRIVER OF OUR COST.
TED SIMONS: TO THAT POINT ONE LAST NOTE HERE FROM THE ATTORNEY GENERAL WHEN HE APPEARED ON THE PROGRAM WE MENTIONED THAT RESEARCH VERSUS NON-RESEARCH COST AND HE TALKED ABOUT SOME OF THE NUMBERS YOU TALKED ABOUT AND HERE IS WHAT HE HAD TO SAY.
MARK BRNOVICH: THIS IS PART OF THE UNIVERSITY SHELL GAME IS THAT WHEN IT COMES TO RESEARCH COSTS VERSUS NON-RESEARCH COSTS WE ARE NOT GETTING PROVIDED THAT DATA FOR EXAMPLE THE A-S-U FOUNDATION DOESN'T BELIEVE IT'S SUBJECT TO PUBLIC RECORDS REQUEST SO A LOT OF THE QUESTIONS AND ISSUES WE DON'T KNOW THE ANSWERS TO.
TED SIMONS: HE SAYS THAT THE INFORMATION IS EITHER NOT THERE OR IT CAN'T BE FOUND AND SO IS THAT PART OF THE CONFUSION HERE, WHAT IS GOING ON?
MICHAEL CROW: IT'S A COMPLICATED INSTITUTION SO THE ASU FOUNDATION FOR INSTANCE SUPPLIES ABOUT 100 MILLION OF PHILANTHROPY TO THE UNIVERSITY PER YEAR TO HELP OPERATE THE UNIVERSITY, THAT'S ON A 3 BILLION BUDGET SO THESE ARE BIG COMPLEX INSTITUTIONS DRIVEN BY ONE OBJECTIVE GRADUATING FROM ARIZONIANS FROM EVERY FAMILY IMAGINABLE WITH WORLD CLASS DEGREES AND WE ARE NOW DOING THAT. I KNOW THE INSTITUTION HAS NOT DONE THAT AS WELL AS IT'S BEING DONE RIGHT NOW WE DIDN'T HAVE THE RESOURCES OR FINANCIAL AID PACKAGES AND DIDN'T HAVE THE MEANS TO MAKE THINGS WORK WE NOW HAVE ALL OF THAT TOGETHER. THERES NO OBFUSCATION HERE THE ATTORNEY GENERAL USES YOU KNOW LINGO, SHELL GAME OTHER KINDS OF THINGS WE DON'T OPERATE THAT WAY WE HAVE GOVERNING BOARDS WE HAVE AUDITORS WE HAVE REVIEW MECJANISMS AND ALL THESE THINGS ARE IN PLACE CONSTANTLY WE PROBABLY HAVE HUNDREDS OF FUNDING SOURCES COMING IN FROM EVERYWHERE ALL OF WHOM ARE AUDITING ALL OF WHAT WE’RE DOING SO THERE ARE NO SHELL GAMES.
TED SIMONS: AND WHAT HE SAID WHAT WAS NOT ADDRESSED IN THE UNIVERSITY COST STUDY BUT COMPARING ONLINE LEARNING VERSUS CLASSROOM LEARNING AND HE WANTS TO KNOW WHY IT COSTS MORE TO ATTEND ASU ONLINE THAN IT DOES IN PERSON.
MICHAEL CROW: IT DOESN'T. OUR ON LINE PROGRAMS ARE OFFERED ON AN A-LA CART BASIS AND WHAT WE MEAN YOU PURCHASE ONE COURSE AT A TIME VERSUS A COMPLETE TUITION FOR AN ENTIRE SEMESTER. AS OF THE END ACTUALLY AT THE END OF THIS SEMESTER I WILL MAKE CERTAIN THAT NO ONE WHO ALA CART IS BUYING MORE COURSES THAN IT WOULD COST TO ATTEND IN PERSON AND PAY ANYTHING ABOVE THAT IN PERSON STATE TUITION AND SO THAT'S A WE DON'T HAVE VERY MANY STUDENTS THAT DO THAT AND WE MAKE SURE IT'S NOT HIGHER THAN ATTENDING ON CAMPUS.
TED SIMONS: WITH REGARDS TO THE LAWSUIT, THE ATTORNEY GENERAL IS PASSIONATE ABOUT THIS AND FILED A LAWSUIT AND BACKING IT UP AND HE COMES ON THE PROGRAM AND HE IS VERY INTO THIS WHERE IS THE DISCONNECT WHAT IS GOING ON HERE?
MICHAEL CROW: I'M NOT SURE HE NEVER SPOKE TO US BEFORE HE FILED THE LAWSUIT. HE IS OUR LAWYER SO HE IS ACTING IN AN UNUSUAL WAY. I MEAN OUR OWN LAWYER SUING US WITHOUT A CONVERSATION IS AN UNUSUAL METHOD OF GAINING INFORMATION OR GAINING INSIGHT. I APPRECIATE HIS CONCERN, I UNDERSTAND HE IS CONCERNED ABOUT HOW WE CAN SHAPE AND MOVE THINGS FORWARD TO BE OF GREATER SERVICE SO WE ARE ALWAYS WILLING TO SIT DOWN AND TALK AND WORK IT THROUGH AND WORK THINGS THROUGH AND CHANGE THINGS, IMPROVE THINGS ENHANCE THINGS ANY STATE LEADER SUCH AS THE ATTORNEY GENERAL WOULD BE SOMEONE THAT WE WOULD SIT WITH IMMEDIATELY. THIS IS OUT OF THE BOX, THE FIRST CONVERSATION LIKE GOING TO YOUR NEIGHBOR AND SAYING I DON'T LIKE YOU HEDGES AND HAD THEM PULLED OUT AND I’M SUING YOU ALSO. IT’S JUST NOT THE WAY TO START A CONVERSATION.
TED SIMONS: A COUPLE MINUTES LEFT REGARDING HOUSE BILL 2280 NO LEASE BILLS ON BOARD OF REGENTS . BASICALLY, YOU CANNOT LEASE BACK TO PRIVATE LESSORS FOR COMMERCIAL. USE YOU ARE AGAINST THE IDEA. TALK TO US ABOUT IT.
MICHAEL CROW: THEY SAY WE DON'T HAVE MUCH MONEY FROM THE STATE TO FUND YOU FOR THE UNIVERSITY ITSELF, OUR FUNDING IS DOWN 60% PER STUDENT PER YEAR, OKAY, FINE WE THEN COME UP WITH OTHER REVENUE SOURCES TO ADVANCE THE UNIVERSITY INCLUDING USING PROPERTY THAT HAS BEEN GIVEN TO US PROPERTY THAT IS NOT BEING USED BY THE UNIVERSITY SO WE ARE NOT REAL ESTATE DEVELOPERS BUT WE ARE UNIVERSITY DEVELOPERS. IN TEXAS THEY USE STATE LAND TO GENERATE OIL REVENUES OFF STATE LANDS FOR THE UNIVERSITIES WE DON'T HAVE OIL REVENUES AND WE’RE NOT USING STATE LANDS WE ARE USING PUBLIC LANDS PART OF THE UNIVERSITY AND GENERATE MONEY FROM THOSE FOR A WHILE AND THE PEOPLE THAT ARE PROPOSING THIS ARE OPPOSED TO US HAVING THAT KIND OF REVENUE, THEY BELIEVE THAT IT'S DISRUPTIVE TO THE OVER ALL TAX STRUCTURE WE ARE TAKING REVENUE AWAY FROM OTHER PUBLIC RESPONSIBILITIES AND PUBLIC DUTIES. WE HAVE A PUBLIC RESPONSIBILITY AND A PUBLIC DUTY THAT IS TO FUND THE UNIVERSITY WE HAVE FOR PROPERTY TAX OR SALES TAX BASE OR NO GUARANTEED REVENUE SOURCE NO FUNDING MODEL FROM THE STATE SO WE ARE USING ALL OF OUR ASSETS TO GENERATE REVENUE TO MAKE THE UNIVERSITY WORK.
TED SIMONS: SO A PROPONENT OF THIS SAYS LOCAL GOVERNMENTS BECAUSE OF THIS LOCAL GOVERNMENTS ARE NOT GETTING REVENUE THEY WOULD OTHERWISE HAVE. YOU SAY?
MICHAEL CROW: NO BECAUSE THE LAND IS NOT ON THE TAX ROLE TO BEGIN WITH. ONE OF THE PROJECTS PEOPLE HAVE BEEN CONCERNED ABOUT WAS ON LAND GIVEN TO THE UNIVERSITY 60 YEARS AGO. THAT LAND SAT FALLOW, IT WAS A JUNKYARD AND WE FOUND A TEMPORARY USE FOR IT THAT CAN GENERATE REVENUE AND WHEN THAT TEMPORARY USE IS DONE, WHATEVER WAS BUILT ON THAT SITE WE OWN AND WE STILL OWN THE LAND AND SO THE UNIVERSITY HAS TO TAKE A LOOK AT THINGS OVER DECADES OR EVEN CENTURIES YOU KNOW WE ARE LOOKING AT WHAT WILL THE UNIVERSITY NEED 150 YEARS FROM NOW SO IF WE GENERATE SOME REVENUE FROM A PIECE OF PROPERTY BETWEEN NOW AND 50 YEARS FROM NOW WE SHOULD DO THAT.
TED SIMONS: LIMITING THE USAGE TO ACADEMIC PURSUITS STUDENT HOUSING THESE SORTS OF THINGS AS OPPOSED TO COMMERCIAL ENTERPRISE.
MICHAEL CROW: IF WE CAN GENERATE INCOME FROM FOLKS THAT ARE COMMERCIAL ENTERPRISES THAT WANT TO BE NEAR THE UNIVERSITY WE THINK THAT CAN WORK ON A TEMPORARY BASIS AND THIS IS A COMMON UNDER TAKING FOR PRIVATE UNIVERSITIES AROUND THE COUNTRY.
TED SIMONS: LAST QUESTION IS THIS SOMETHING THAT IS DIFFICULT FOR LAWMAKERS TO UNDERSTAND, IS IT TOO COMPLICATED, COULD IT BE SIMPLIFIED?
MICHAEL CROW: I THINK THERE IS AN ISSUE ABOUT HOW COMPLICATED WHO IS PAYING FOR COLLEGE AND HOW DOES IT WORK AND SO FORTH AND WHAT I DO KNOW IS I LOOK AT THE BOTTOM LINE, OUR BOTTOM LINE IS IF YOU CAME TO ASU FOUR YEARS AGO WITH AN A AVERAGE YOU HAD 71% CHANCE OF GRADUATING IN FOUR YEARS WE NEVER HAD THAT BEFORE IF YOU CAME WITH A B AVERAGE THE AVERAGE GRADUATION IN FOUR YEARS FOR A KID IN THE COUNTRY IS 15% OURS IS 46% SO WHAT WE DO KNOW IS THAT IT'S COMPLICATED. IF YOU SIT DOWN WITH US AS A FAMILY, IF YOU SIT DOWN WITH US AS A STUDENT AND YOUR FAMILY WE WILL MAKE IT POSSIBLE FOR YOU TO ATTEND AND GRADUATE FROM ASU.
TED SIMONS: THE ATTORNEY GENERAL WILL SAY AND HE SAID ON THE PROGRAM HE WENT TO ASU IN THE 1980s GRADUATED WITHOUT DEBT AND PAID 600 SOME ODD A SEMESTER AND CAN'T UNDERSTAND WHY IT CAN'T BE SIMILAR.
MICHAEL CROW: GRADUATION RATE WAS 13% AND ALMOST NO ONE GRADUATED THERE WAS NO DIVERSITY IN THE STUDENT BODY AND TURNS OUT IF YOU TAKE OUR AND I RUN THE CALCULATIONS SINCE HE HAS QUESTIONED THEM AGAIN JUST TO MAKE SURE THAT I WAS RIGHT AND THESE NUMBERS ARE ACCURATE THAT IN 2017, 2018 DOLLARS OUR PRESENT NET TUITION IS ABOUT THE SAME ACTUALLY A LITTLE BIT LESS THAN THE EQUIVALENT OF THE TUITION BACK 30 YEARS AGO, THE DIFFERENCE IS THE INSTITUTION HAD NO RESOURCES. THE INSTITUTION WAS NOT GRADUATING STUDENTS. THE INSTITUTION WAS NOT SERVING ITS COMMUNITY. NOW THE ATTORNEY GENERAL HAS SAID AND I AGREE WITH HIM WE NEED MORE OPTIONS WE NEED MORE WAYS TO ADVANCE THE UNIVERSITY AND HIGHER EDUCATION OPTIONS SO WE STARTED BACHELOR DEGREE IN LAKE HAVASU AND EASTERN ARIZONA COLLEGE IN THATCHER AND STARTED OUR ONLINE PROGRAMS AND DRIVING THOSE FORWARD AND WORKING ON OTHER IDEAS AND OTHER PROJECTS WE HAVE LOWER TUITION PROGRAMS IN CERTAIN AREAS OF THE INSTITUTION WE THINK WE CAN DO MORE OF THOSE AND DRIVE THOSE FORWARD AND SO YES WE ARE DOING EVERYTHING WE CAN TO FIND PATHWAYS FOR PEOPLE TO GAIN ACCESS TO WHAT IT IS THAT WE HAVE WHICH IS THE ABILITY TO PRODUCE A PERSON EDUCATED AT A LEVEL WHERE THEY CAN COMPETE IN THE ECONOMY THAT IS EMERGING. IF WE WEREN'T GRADUATING ANYONE WE ARE A FAILURE. IF WE HAVE NO RESOURCES TO GRADUATE ANYONE WE ARE A FAILURE. WE ARE NOW NO LONGER OPERATING IN A MODALITY WHERE WE ARE NOT SUCCEEDING WE ARE SUCCEEDING.
TED SIMONS: ASU PRESIDENT MICHAEL CROW THANKS FOR JOINING US THE FAVORITE PHYSICIST LAWRENCE KRAUS WITH THE LATEST ON SCIENCE NEWS.
Michael Crow: President, Arizona State University
