Mayor Gordon Recall Effort

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American Citizens United announces a recall drive against Phoenix Mayor Phil Gordon. The group’s vice chairman, Phillip Quihuis, explains their reasons for organizing the effort.

>>José Cárdenas:
Good evening, and welcome to "Horizonte". I'm José Cárdenas. A group organizes an effort to recall Phoenix Mayor Phil Gordon because of what they say is his lack of enforcement when it comes to immigration laws. How will balancing the state budget affect agencies such as AHCCCS (Arizona Health Care Cost Containment System) and other health care programs? And the effect of proposition 300 on undocumented immigrants and their ability to attend universities and college. All this coming up next, on "Horizonte."

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>>José Cárdenas:
The Mayor of Phoenix is the target of a recall effort by critics who want him out of office. He's accused of being too soft when it comes to . Joining me to talk about this effort is Phillip Quihuis, Vice Chairman of American Citizens United, the group organizing the recall. Philip, thanks for joining us on "Horizonte".

>>Philip Quihuis:
Thank you.

>>José Cárdenas:
Before we launch into this, we've got a statement from the Mayor's Office that we were given to read here. I want to share that with our audience:

[José Cárdenas reads statement as statement appears on screen]

>>José Cárdenas:
"A few on the very fringe want to promote their extremist agenda for Phoenix. That agenda was overwhelmingly rejected just 8 months ago, and it will be rejected again." How do you respond to the Mayor's characterization of your group as being "a few people on the fringe"?

>>Philip Quihuis:
Well, apparently, he's never met me, otherwise, I don't think he would say that. I'm a phoenix native. I was born and raised here. I went to Maryvale High School. I went to ASU, got my degree there in Political Science. I've lived here all my life. I've paid my taxes, never been in trouble with the law. Just because you want the laws enforced, doesn't make you on the fringe, and if he considers me on the fringe, then he's going to have to consider the nearly 80% of the rest of the people who want our Immigration laws enforced on the fringe as well. If anything, he's part of the fringe, since he's part of the 20% of the people who still want to continue to have Open Borders, and continue to have and support .

>>José Cárdenas:
And yet, the latest popularity polls - I shouldn't describe them that way - the latest polls show he has a popularity rating of about 66%. How do you explain that?

>>Philip Quihuis:
Actually, if you look at the poll, it actually said his approval rating was only 42% overall, and that was only a county-wide poll. So, that really doesn't mean too much to me. If they did a poll that actually just did Phoenix residents only, then that would be more significant to me, since Phoenix voters are be the ones who will actually go out and vote him out of office.

>>José Cárdenas:
And I want to get to some of the details about what you're doing, and why you're doing it. But first, let's talk about just some facts: how many signatures do you need, and by when do you need them?

>>Philip Quihuis:
We need 23,751 valid signatures. And we actually filed our application for the recall on April 30th, so we've got 120 days from that date. So that would put our deadline as August 28th as when we need to have everything submitted to the City Clerk's Office.

>>José Cárdenas:
And how are you doing so far?

>>Philip Quihuis:
Doing pretty good. The response has been tremendous. Some of the response we're getting is "About time," "I'm with you 100%", "He needs to go" I think he's going to be surprised.

>>José Cárdenas:
And how are you going about doing this? Are you using paid circulators, or petition gatherers, rather?

>>Philip Quihuis:
No, this is all volunteer. No one here is getting paid. I'm not getting paid. No one here is getting paid, it's all volunteers. It's just people basically contacting us through the website, "recallmayorgordon.com". They can get in contact with us, we start giving them petitions, they start going out to different areas, start circulate them, start circulating petitions. I've been going out to various places this past week, to some of the City Libraries to start handing out some of the petitions to some of the volunteers. I've collected signatures at the same time. I've already donated the maximum amount I can donate to this cause - because Campaign Finance Laws, you're only allowed to donate $390 total, and I've already maxed myself out. So, I'm not making a penny. I'm actually spending money to do this.

>>José Cárdenas:
How much money do you think you need to make it happen?

>>Philip Quihuis:
Well, obviously the more, the better, but what we really need more than anything else is to make sure we get enough volunteers out there on the streets, and get to so many different areas. I've gotten so many emails from people saying, "when are you going to the west side?", "when are you going to come to Ahwatukee?", "When are you coming to my neighborhood?" People are just clamoring to sign the petitions. Just a matter of us getting volunteers out there to make sure there's a steady supply of people to get signatures.

>>José Cárdenas:
How many volunteers so far?

>>Philip Quihuis:
Personally, I've gathered at least 25 myself, but there's other members doing that as well. So, I don't have the official total in my head right now, but like - it's going daily. I'm getting contacted daily from people wanting to volunteer. So, it's just growing daily.

>>José Cárdenas:
Now, the seasoned political observers, at least the ones quoted in papers, are saying this is a pretty hopeless task. What's your assessment?

>>Philip Quihuis:
I don't think so. I mean - like I said, Phil Gordon, you're going to be surprised when he wakes up one day and finds out that we got 23,751 valid signatures. If you just look at how many people want our immigration laws enforced, it's nearly 80%. I mean, that's like a super-mandate. The fact he's on the wrong side of that issue, he's really setting himself up for disaster - especially if he has aspirations to become Governor one day.

>>José Cárdenas:
Now, we've had the Mayor on the show, and he says it's not that he don't want immigration laws enforced, he doesn't like the way Sheriff Arpaio is going about it, and he has a big concern about Racial Profiling. Is that any concern for your group?

>>Philip Quihuis:
No. I mean, if you get stopped for a routine traffic violation - if I ever get stopped for a routine traffic violation, I want somebody to ask me about my immigration status is, especially if I don't have a driver's license, proof of insurance, or don't speak a word of English. I mean, everybody should be asked. If you do it straight across the board, then you don't have to worry about racially profiling anybody.

>>José Cárdenas:
Well, isn't that the complaint, though, that the Sheriff is not doing straight across the board, that he's targeting vehicles carrying people who look like they're of Hispanic descent, and just following them, in some instances, until they observe some kind of traffic violations?

>>Philip Quihuis:
I don't think that's what actually is happening.

>>José Cárdenas:
If that is happening, do you think that's inappropriate?

>>Philip Quihuis:
Well, if he's specifically targeting brown people, yeah, but I don't see any evidence that he is.

>>José Cárdenas:
Have you looked into those allegations?

>>Philip Quihuis:
I've read them online, and they seem to be bogus.

>>José Cárdenas:
And how did you make that determination?

>>Philip Quihuis:
Well, for example, if you look at the recent - when they had the while Pruitt's Incident, where you had that - I can't remember his name right now, the ACLU lawyer. Just based on what happened with him, it seemed like a total set-up, where he went out there, just looking to cause trouble, just looking to file a lawsuit against the County. And I read some of the other reports about people supposedly claiming they're - I've actually not seen anybody with any substantial information saying they came forward and saying, yeah, I was doing nothing wrong, I was followed for several miles, I didn't come to a complete stop, and then I was pulled over because I was Brown. I have yet to see anybody come forward to the media with those kind of complaints.

>>José Cárdenas:
Now, I think the reality is there have been a number of reports in the paper of people who are detained who were legal residents or citizens, and held for hours while their immigration status was checked. Is that of any concern to you?

>>Philip Quihuis:
I remember one of those instances, a female, they had trouble determining her status because she didn't have any ID on her. But part of the - when you go out, failure to carry ID or produce ID is a crime. It's sad that that happened, but she was eventually let go.

>>José Cárdenas:
Another concern the mayor voiced was that at the same time that these resources were being devoted to immigration enforcement, there are 40,000 felony warrants being unserved.

>>Philip Quihuis:
That's another common complaint. 12,000 of those are in the City of Phoenix. If he's really that concerned, he would be doing his own task force to wind up - going out there and finding those people.

>>José Cárdenas:
But you don't think that would be a better use of the Sheriff's resources?

>>Philip Quihuis:
Well, I'm not - reasonable people can't debate whether these sweeps are legitimate or not, or whether or not they are really effective. But what caused me to really start this effort and want to get him recalled was the fact he's trying to actually hinder him from doing his job. It's really not his business to say which laws the Sheriff is going to enforce or not enforce. Sheriff Joe actually had people complaining, "hey, come to my area, a high-crime area, I want you to do a saturation sweep." If I'm not mistaken, there are several East Mesa lawmakers wanting to do the same thing over there. He actually got a letter from them wanting to do the same thing.

>>José Cárdenas:
Well, the chief of the City of Mesa's Police Department says he doesn't want the Sheriff there for those purposes. Is that of any concern to you?

>>Philip Quihuis:
He can say he doesn't want them, there but he doesn't have a right to keep them out of there.

>>José Cárdenas:
OK. Philip, we're almost out of time. Where and how are your people going about gathering signatures?

>>Philip Quihuis:
Right now, we're - we got petitions from local volunteers. Some of them are just canvassing areas, like their local neighborhoods. Some are going to apartment complexes. Some are just going to places. And then we've got some dedicated locations. If you go to our website, "recallmayorgordon.com", click on the petition location, you can see different locations where you can go, where someone will always be there. You can go during certain hours and sign the petition.

>>José Cárdenas:
Phillip Quihuis, thank you for joining us on "Horizonte", I'm sure we'll be discussing this topic in the weeks to come.

>>Philip Quihuis:
Thank you.

>>José Cárdenas:
Many programs and state agencies are facing funding cuts in order to balance the State Budget. Some say the cuts could have a wide impact on healthcare. State Lawmakers have reduced payments from AHCCCS to hospitals, as well as made cuts to the State's Graduate Medical Education Program. "Horizon" host Ted Simons recently talked to John Rivers, President and CEO of the Arizona Hospital and Healthcare Association, about the effect of the budget cuts.

>>Ted Simons:
The '08 Budget, how much does it affect healthcare?

>>John Rivers:
to the tune of about $4.5 million totally, about 1.5 million of that is State funding for Graduate Medical Education, as you referred to it, or GME, as we call it in shorthand. But State dollars for our State Medicaid Program, AHCCCS, are matched to Federal dollars. So, there's a compounding effect when you increase spending on AHCCCS. One additional dollar spent means there are two additional Federal dollars that come into State. But Budget cuts have exactly the opposite effect. A $1 cut in State funding means a $2 reduction in Federal funding. So in total, it's about a $4.5 million reduction in funding for GME.

>>Ted Simons:
At this point right now, how much does AHCCCS cover, in terms of hospital costs?

>>John Rivers:
About 88% of total costs, and under plans that are underway for the 2009 Budget, that number could drop even further. Which means in today's dollars on - if it costs $1,000 to take care of a patient in one of our hospitals, we're going to get paid $888 from AHCCCS. So we're being paid below cost on virtually every patient.

>>Ted Simons:
And it's worse in rural areas, I take it?

>>John Rivers:
It was worse in rural areas, up until the Legislature adopted what's called the "Save Pool", which is a special pool to help our small rural hospitals, and that was money that they've appropriated every year, for about the last three or four years now. And that has brought rural hospitals up to parity pretty much with our urban hospitals, in terms of payment.

>>Ted Simons:
Is SAVE saved?

>>John Rivers:
We don't know yet. SAVE was not touched in the '08 Budget. It's on the chopping block in '09, along with several other programs that, in aggregate, total about $86 million.

>>Ted Simons:
What are the consequences of these cuts?

>>John Rivers:
Depends on the program. For example, the GME cuts that were just approved by the State Legislature, again, $1.5 million in State money, $4.5 million total, means next year we're going to be producing about 48 fewer - we'll have about 48 fewer residency slots available in our Arizona hospitals. Now, remember that Residency Programs are where physicians go after they've completed their formal medical education, after they've completed their internship program, and now they're going into their areas of specialty, whether it's Surgery, Cardiology, or whatever it happens to be. And so, with fewer GME slots, we're going to have fewer doctors in Arizona. That's what it means over the years ahead. And we're a State that, right now, ranks near the bottom of the list in terms - in all the - among all the States for the number of doctors that we have per 100,000 population. That problem is now going to get worse.

>>Ted Simons:
How are hospitals going to react to this? I mean, reaction is necessary, the '08 Budget is in, the '09 Budget is going to be worked on. Something is going to happen here. How are hospitals going to react?

>>John Rivers:
Well, the way they're going to react, I think, to the GME cuts - the Graduate Medical Education cuts - are that we're simply not going to be funding, we're not going to be picking up the slack for the Residency positions that the State was paying for that now they're not going to be paying for. So, those Residency positions are going to disappear. And again, that means fewer doctors in the future. Now, what happens, how we're going to react to the '09 Budget, depends on what decisions they make. If they make decisions that reduce payments further to hospitals, it means that we're going to get further behind. To answer your question directly, what are we going to do. It means our ability to recruit doctors and nurses will be less than it was before. It means our ability to reduce Emergency Room wait times is going to be severely impaired. It means our ability to expand our capacity to meet the needs of a growing community will also be impaired. Fewer resources mean less capacity on our part to do the things that we need to do.

>>Ted Simons:
And I know there's talk of a "hidden tax" and all this as well.

>>John Rivers:
It is a "hidden tax". Somehow, the cost for many of these things have to be paid for by somebody. So unfortunately, our healthcare system revolves around a system of robbing Peter to pay Paul. So much of that burden is going to get shifted over to commercial insurance companies, who are going to increase premiums on people like yourself, who are going to have to pay more.

>>Ted Simons:
Last question, very quickly here. Critics will say it's wrong, but it's a done deal. It's time for a new plan and new idea. Any new plans or ideas in the works?

>>John Rivers:
Well, the plan - I don't know of any other way to fund Graduate Medical Education than the way it's being done right now. It's a fair question to say, should there be another model for how we fund it? But the model we have today is the only one we've got. So I think it's fair we may have to rethink that, but I think for the time being, we're going to have to live with this decision, and it means fewer doctors in Arizona in the future.

>>José Cárdenas:
Arizona voters approved Proposition 300 more than a year ago. This is the ballot initiative that prevents undocumented students from getting In-State tuition and State-funded Financial Aid. According to the Arizona Joint Legislative Budget Committee, Arizona Colleges and Universities report nearly 4,000 students have been denied In-State tuition this year because of failing to prove they were Legal Residents. Joining me to talk about the impact Proposition 300 has had on the community is Carmen Cornejo, from CADENA, an Arizona-based group of concerned citizen who's are advocating for the passage of the DREAM Act in the US Congress. Also here is State Representative David Lujan. Represent Lujan is also currently President of the Phoenix Union High School District Governing Board. Thank you both for joining us here on "Horizonte".

>>Carmen Cornejo:
Thank you.

>>José Cárdenas:
Carmen, your organization, CADENA, meaning "change". what exactly is it, and what is its purpose?

>>Carmen Cornejo:
Our main purpose is to educate the community about the goodness of the DREAM Act. It's a bipartisan legislation in the US Congress. And also to let the students know about how to support the DREAM Act. We do a lot of advocacy, and we talk with the Congressional Offices here in Arizona, we have talked with Senator McCain, Congressman Flake, Congressman Mitchell, about supporting the DREAM Act, basically.

>>José Cárdenas:
And explain for our viewers what the DREAM Act would do.

>>Carmen Cornejo:
The DREAM Act is a legislation that would provide a path to citizenship to undocumented students that has good moral character, and also that have completed High School, and two years of Post-Secondary Education.

>>José Cárdenas:
And what kind of responses have you gotten from the Congressional Delegation when you've talked to them about the DREAM Act?

>>Carmen Cornejo:
Well, the area where I live, where I have access to my Congressperson, they're very supportive of the DREAM Act. Senator flake has incorporated the DREAM Act into the Strive Act, and also Mitchell's been a teacher himself. He understands the needs for the DREAM Act.

>>José Cárdenas:
These are two of our Congressmen.

>>Carmen Cornejo:
Exactly.

>>José Cárdenas:
What has Senator McCain -

>>Carmen Cornejo:
Senator McCain has been, in the past, cosponsor of the DREAM Act, but he didn't vote when the Cloture vote - the vote in October of last year, he didn't vote for the Cloture vote, and he was very disappointed for us. But also, we have a hope that he will support, in the future, the DREAM Act. We have not lost hope.

>>José Cárdenas:
If he becomes President.

>>Carmen Cornejo:
Yes, definitely.

>>José Cárdenas:
Representative Lujan, you wear several hats. One of the ones you're wearing tonight is you're a member of the Phoenix Union High School District Governing Board. What impact are you seeing there?

>>David Lujan:
Well, it definitely is discouraging our immigrant students. And just last week, our School Board changed our mission. We now want to be, in the Phoenix Union High School District, a "College-going District". Which means we want to prepare every student for success in College, career, and life. And so, when you have two - when you have a District policy that conflicts with the overall State policy, it makes it difficult. But we're going to go forth, and we're going to encourage every one of our students to be prepared, to be successful in College, and I think it's the loss for Arizona if we're losing these students. Because I'm telling you, these are some of the most talented students that we're seeing coming out of the phoenix union district, and we're losing Engineers, and Doctors, and Teachers, and we're not doing anything, really, I think to deter immigration with Prop 300.

>>José Cárdenas:
Just to be clear, students can still go to College.

>>David Lujan:
Yes.

>>José Cárdenas:
They're just not entitled to the In-State tuition or to State Financial Aid.

>>David Lujan:
That's correct.

>>José Cárdenas:
And some would say that until you fix things at the Federal level, what's the point of allowing to go to College, because they can't hold a job if they're not here legally?

>>David Lujan:
Well, you know, I think we can learn a lot. Looking at the differences between Prop 300, which went into effect in January of 2007, compared to the Employer Sanctions, which went into effect this year. If you look at Prop 300, which denied In-State tuition, and some other benefits, if you ask School Districts last year whether that went into effect, they saw very little drop in enrollment. Which tells me that Prop 300 did very little to discourage . But you compare that to a year later, and January 2008, when the Employer Sanctions Bill went into place, School Districts are reporting hundreds of students leaving their schools. Which tells me what many of us were saying all along: that the Employer Sanctions - people come here for jobs. And so, the Employer Sanctions work to deter , but not Prop 300, and I think the other States that surround Arizona, most of the States in the Country, are realizing that denying In-State tuition does nothing to deter . So most States in the Country are actually offering immigrant students In-State tuition because they recognize that even though they might implement some of these harsh immigration measures, a lot of these immigrant students are still going to stay in the United States, so they want to educate them, and make sure they're going to contribute back into our economy.

>>José Cárdenas:
Carmen, there seems to be some confusion about the numbers. The three Universities reported their numbers, and they're in the hundreds, I think ASU had the largest number, a couple of hundred students who did not - who identified them as not having legal status.

>>Carmen Cornejo:
Yes.

>>José Cárdenas:
Of that 4,000, most of it then comes from the Community Colleges. Is that right?

>>Carmen Cornejo:
Yes, that's right.

>>José Cárdenas:
And how do they know these are students who didn't show up because of Prop 300?

>>Carmen Cornejo:
It's very difficult to determine that it was fact, actually. Because also, with the lack of jobs and the Employer Sanctions at the same time, it's very difficult to estimate which were impacted directly by Prop 300.

>>José Cárdenas:
And I should clarify, their numbers are making some assumptions that because a number of students haven't come back to school, that they're not there because of Prop 300. But there may be other causes.

>>Carmen Cornejo:
Yes. And also, some of the students that work full-time, they are now part-time students. Taking one or two credits, or taking some classes.

>>José Cárdenas:
Because of the higher cost.

>>Carmen Cornejo:
Exactly. The higher cost basically impacting them.

>>José Cárdenas:
Now, recently, CADENA conducted a forum.

>>Carmen Cornejo:
Yes

>>José Cárdenas:
Tell us about that, who was invited, and what was the discussion? And what were you hearing back from the people who attended?

>>Carmen Cornejo:
Yeah, we have Mr. Lujan participating in the forum, we have student activists, and a lawyer, an immigration lawyer. And it was to present information to the community about the status of the DREAM Act. A lot of the people are confused, and think the DREAM Act is dead. The DREAM Act is not dead, it's still part of - in Congress, still alive, and can be brought to a vote at anytime, although the possibility of this year are very slim. We are looking for 2009, basically.

>>José Cárdenas:
And there are some people who say even if the DREAM Act is implemented, at least in its current form, it's not going to solve the problem of denial of In-State tuition and State funds.

>>Carmen Cornejo:
Yeah. Unfortunately, the problem - the DREAM Act and Prop 300, they are two different things that will affect each other. The thing is, we need to pass DREAM Act for one very important reason. We need to have the students the freedom of having a Social Security Number, and not to be in danger of deportation. Because it's very, very critical for us that the students are not taken by Sheriff Joe Arpaio and put in an immigration hold. The situation in the Immigration Hold is very, very - the Human Rights are not being respected there.

>>José Cárdenas:
If they get the status that the DREAM Act would confer, would that also allow them to be employed in the United States?

>>Carmen Cornejo:
Exactly. They would give them a Social Security Number, which is very important in this Country, and will allow them, probably, to work for paying their tuition, and - but also applying in the future for School and other activities.

>>José Cárdenas:
Representative Lujan, you tried to deal with this in the State Legislature. Tell us what happened, and whether there are any new efforts underway.

>>David Lujan:
Well, I introduced what was called the Arizona DREAM Act last year. It didn't go very far, it didn't get a hearing. My hope would be that as we go down the road, and we see that there are other ways to address the Illegal Immigration issue, other than trying to curtail In-State tuition to immigrant students, that the people will have a second thought. Other States, as I said, are offering In-State tuition, even States like Texas, where it has some of the harshest Anti-Immigrant statutes, are offering their students In-State tuition. I think once we see it behooves us as a State to provide an education to these students so that they can give back to our economy and provide their talents to our State, rather than the alternative of being a burden on the State, that it's in our best interests to give these students the opportunity to succeed.

>>José Cárdenas:
Well, do you see very many of your colleagues at the State Legislature having second thoughts, people who supported Prop 300?

>>David Lujan:
Well, I don't see them having second thoughts now, unfortunately. But I - my hope is that over time, that they will see that - one of the things - this impacts citizen students, because right now, because of some of the immigration measures, School Districts are losing enrollment, so they're having to close schools, cut back on programs, and that affects students who are US Citizens. So I think as people see some of the negative impacts of this, that they will have second thoughts and say, why don't we at least provide opportunities for our immigrant students who came here by no choice of their own?

>>José Cárdenas:
And let's talk more specifically about the impact of Prop 300 on undocumented High School students. What are you seeing?

>>David Lujan:
It's very sad. In the Phoenix Union District, we have so many outstanding programs. And we know that - we don't know how many, but we know a number of our students are most likely undocumented. But you look at programs like the Carl Hayden Robotics Club, they just won the World Championship. Maryville High School has one of the finest music programs in the State. Central High School, their Speech & Debate Team consistently is among the top programs in the State. Some of these students are, no doubt, undocumented. And so, how many of these future Engineers at Carl Hayden, who have proven to be some of the best engineering prospects in the whole World, are we losing? And so, how do we explain it to these students that we aren't providing them the opportunity, and what's happening is, these students are going out of State, because other States are offering them opportunities, and so Arizona is losing their talents. And I think that's a shame for our State.

>>José Cárdenas:
Carmen, we've only got about 30 seconds left. What do you tell the students who say we can't afford the tuition?

>>Carmen Cornejo:
We are asking the students to keep the hope alive. That situation is going to change, and the DREAM Act is going to be passed. And also, to study hard, and try to reach their goals. Even - they can take some classes, one or two classes at the school or Community College, or ASU, they should try that.

>>José Cárdenas:
And we're going to have to leave on that note. Carmen Cornejo, Thank you for joining us.

>>Carmen Cornejo:
Thank you.

>>José Cárdenas:
Representative Lujan, always a pleasure.

>>David Lujan:
Thank you.

>>José Cárdenas:
Next Thursday on "Horizonte," we profile students from Gateway Early College High School, who are profiled in the book "Documented Dreams". We'll talk about their experience living without legal status in the United States. That's our show for tonight. I'm José Cárdenas, have a good evening.

>>Announcer:
Funding for "Horizonte" is provided by SRP.
SRP's business is water and power, But our dedication to the community doesn't stop there. SRP: delivering more than power.

Phillip Quihuis: Vice Chairman, American Citizens United;

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