Journalists’ Roundtable

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Join us as three local journalists bring you up to date on the news of the week.

TED: GOOD EVENING AND WELCOME TO "ARIZONA HORIZON'S JOURNALISTS' ROUNDTABLE." I'M TED SIMONS. JOINING US TONIGHT: MARY JO PITZL OF THE "ARIZONA REPUBLIC." HOWARD FISCHER OF THE "CAPITOL MEDIA SERVICES." AND LUIGE DEL PUERTO OF THE "ARIZONA CAPITOL TIMES." THE ARIZONA SUPREME COURT HAS AGREED TO HEAR A CHALLENGE TO PROP-206, THE VOTER-APPROVED INCREASE TO THE STATE'S MINIMUM WAGE. IS THIS A SURPRISE THAT THE HIGH COURT SAID WE'LL LOOK AT THIS?

MARY JO PITZL: NO, I DON'T THINK IT'S A BIG SURPRISE. BOTH PARTIES TO THE SUIT ARE HAPPY. THIS WILL LAY IT TO REST AND FOREGO SENDING THINGS BACK DOWN TO A LOWER COURT. LET'S GET IT UP BEFORE THE HIGH COURT, GET IT OVER WITH.

HOWARD FISCHER: WHAT'S IMPORTANT IS, THEY TOOK IT ON ONE OF TWO ISSUES. THEY TOOK IT ON THE REVENUE SOURCE RULE. IF SOMETHING IN THE INITIATIVE CAUSES AN EXPENDITURE, DOES THAT REQUIRE REVENUE WITH IT? GIVEN EVERYTHING ON THE BALLOT HAS AN EXPENDITURE, YOU LOWER THE SPEED LIMITS, YOU HAVE TO PAY FOR THE SIGNS THROUGH THE REVENUE SOURCE RULE, SO I THINK THEY ARE DRAWING THE LINE.

TED: THE ATTORNEY GENERAL SAID NOT SO.

LUIGE DEL PUERTO: HE HAS SUPPORTED WHAT THE VOTERS VOTED FOR IN NOVEMBER. THEY ARE DEFENDING --

MARY JO PITZL: THE STATE, THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH.

LUIGE DEL PUERTO: HE REPRESENTS THE STATE. IT'S HIS DUTY TAKING ON IT HIMSELF DEFENDING THE STATE LAW. HE SAID VOTERS SAID THEIR PIECE. WE SHOULD UPHOLD WHAT THEY SAID.

HOWARD FISCHER: BECAUSE THEY WERE REVIEWING THE REVENUE SOURCE RULE, EVEN IF THE CHALLENGERS WIN, THE MINIMUM WAGE, I THINK, STAYS. THE REMEDY UNDER THE CONSTITUTION IF YOU VIOLENT THE REVENUE SOURCE RULE THE STATE DOESN'T SPEND THE MONEY. IT DOESN'T INVALIDATE THE OTHER 2.7 MILLION ARIZONANS NEED TO SPEND THE MONEY.

TED: THE PROBLEM IS SERVICE PROVIDERS FOR THOSE THAT NEED ASSISTANCE?

LUIGE DEL PUERTO: RIGHT. THAT'S THE ARGUMENT KEY SUPPORTERS OF THE MINIMUM WAGE HAVE HAD AND SAID ALL ALONG. THE STATE DOESN'T HAVE TO FUND THE INCREASE. ACCESS THAT SAID WE NEED TO DO IT BUT NOT OBLIGATED TO DO IT, ACCESS OFFICIALS ALSO SAID IF WE ARE GOING TO DO IT, WE'LL DO IT BECAUSE WE DECIDED, IT'S OUR DETERMINATION THAT WE WOULD DO THIS.

MARY JO PITZL: THIS GOES BEYOND THE STATE'S HEALTH INSURANCE PROGRAM COVERING PEOPLE IN NURSING HOMES AND LONG-TERM CARE. IT EXTENDS TO THE SERVICES TO KEEP SENIORS AND OTHERS IN THEIR HOME OPPOSED TO LIVING IN AN ASSISTED CARE FACILITY, EXTENDS TO SCHOOLS AND CROSSING GUARDS AND CAFETERIA WORKERS WHO MAY MAKE LESS THAN $10 AN HOUR. I ASKED SENATOR YARBOROUGH, WHAT'S THE PLAN? IT'S CLEAR THE SCHOOLS ARE LOW MAN ON THE TOTEM POLE AND PROBABLY THE HOME HEALTH WORKERS AS WELL. WE HAVE A LOT OF PEOPLE WORKING ON STATE CONTRACTS OR SCHOOL DISTRICTS PAID LESS THAN MINIMUM WAGE AN HOUR.

TED: THESE PEOPLE MAKE THAT KIND OF MONEY?

HOWARD FISCHER: RIGHT AND THE CRUCIAL FACT THAT THE TRIAL JUDGE NOTED IN TERMS OF PEOPLE WAITING FOR THEIR MONEY. YOU HAVE THE PERSON AT MCDONALDS GETTING $10 AN HOUR. IF YOU ARE TAKING CARE OF MY MOM, UNDER A STATE CONTRACT YOU ARE GETTING $8.15 AN HOUR. I THINK THAT SHOCKS PEOPLE.

MARY JO PITZL: HIGH COURT WILL TAKE THIS UP MARCH 9TH. WE'LL SEE WHAT HAPPENS. EVEN IF THE COURT SAYS, FOR SOME REASON FINDS THE WHOLE THING UNCONSTITUTIONAL WHICH IS WHAT PEOPLE BRINGING THE COMPLAINT ARE HOPING, HOW MANY EMPLOYERS THAT HAVE GIVEN PEOPLE A RAISE ARE GOING TO WALK THAT BACK? YOU MIGHT FREEZE IT. YOU COULD FORESTALL FUTURE INCREASES, BUT THE BELL SORT OF RUNG.

LUIGE DEL PUERTO: FOR THE REPUBLICAN LEADERSHIP IN THE HOUSE AND SENATE, THEY HAVE TIED THEIR HANDS, CORNERED THEMSELVES ON THIS ONE. THEY SAID WE HAVE TO FUND THIS. EVEN IF YOU ARE CORRECT AND THE STATE IS NOT OBLIGATED TO DO IT --

MARY JO PITZL: THEY'LL -- TO SOME EXTENT.

LUIGE DEL PUERTO: CAN LAWMAKERS SAY WE DIDN'T MEAN WHAT WE SAID.

HOWARD FISCHER: THEY CAN'T. IT COMES DOWN TO WHAT MARY JO IS TALKING ABOUT, IF HOME HEALTHCARE WORKERS REALIZE, I COULD GET MORE AT BURGER KING, WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO CONTINUE DOING THAT. YOU HAVE STUDENTS GETTING $8.15 AN HOUR AND SAY I CAN WORK AT CIRCLE K AS A NIGHT CLERK TO MAKE MORE.

TED: HEARING MARCH 9TH ON THIS ONE. WE HAD AN APPEAL'S COURT DECISION THIS WEEK AFTER THREE OR FOUR YEARS, HOWIE.

HOWARD FISCHER: THIS GOES BACK TO THE FACT THAT JAN BREWER FOUND THE AFFORDABLE CARE ACT, THE NAME NOT SPOKEN AMONG REPUBLICANS SAYING IF YOU GO FROM 100% POVERTY LEVEL, 138%, THE FEDS WILL PICK UP THE COSTS. NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT. THE PROBLEM IS WE STOPPED FUNDING ADULTS UNDER 100% AND HAD TO FILL IT IN. HOW DO YOU DO THAT? NO TAXES AND FUNDING ON HOSPITALS. IT WAS DONE IN A TRICKY WAY. WE ARE LEAVING IT UP TO THE ARIZONA COST CONTAINMENT ASSESSMENT TO DECIDE WHAT THE LEVEE IS. IT PASSED BY A SIMPLE MAJORITY. LAWMAKERS WHO DIDN'T GET TO VOTE ON IT SUED. THEY SAID IT REQUIRES 2/3. WE COULD HAVE BLOCKED IT. THE SUPREME COURT GAVE THEM THE RIGHT TO SUE. NOW WE ARE TAKING IT BACK TO DETERMINE IF IT'S A TAX OR A LEVEE.

TED: IF IT'S NOT A TAX, IF THIS IS NOT A TAX, AND YOU CAN ASSESS A FEE TO DO XY AND Z, WHAT GOOD IS HAVING TO GET THE REQUIREMENT FOR TAXES?

LUIGE DEL PUERTO: THAT IS A GOOD QUESTION. THE JUDGES WHO HEARD THE ARGUMENTS FROM BOTH SIDES THIS WEEK WERE SKEPTICAL OR SOUNDED SKEPTICAL OF THE GOLD WATER INSTITUTE'S ARGUMENT. ONE JUDGE SAID THAT'S THE MOST CIRCULAR ARGUMENT I HAVE EVER HEARD. THAT'S THE MAIN QUESTION. IS IT A TAX OR NOT TAX. PROPOSITION 108 SAYS IF YOU ARE GOING TO PASS ANYTHING THAT RESULTS IN A NET INCREASE TO STATE REVENUES, THAT YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO GET A 2/3 MAJORITY VOTE OF THE CHAMBER OF LEGISLATURE. THERE ARE EXEMPTIONS. ONE IS THAT A FEE IS NOT SET BY A LEGISLATURE, IT'S SET BY THE AGENCY IMPOSING THE ASSESSMENT. THAT HINGES ON HOW THE COURT VIEWS. WHAT'S INTEREST, THEY HAVE DONE IT THIS WAY FOR YEARS.

MARY JO PITZL: WE HAVE RAISED ALL SORTS OF FEES LETTING DIRECTOR SET THAT. WE HAVE CAR REGISTRATION FEES. HE WOULDN'T RAISE THEM. THE LEGISLATURE WOULDN'T RAISE THEM THEY WOULD GIVE MBD AUTHORITY.

TED: THOSE FEES IN THE PAST, WERE THEY TO THIS MAGNITUDE.

MARY JO PITZL: I DON'T KNOW. DOES IT MATTER?

HOWARD FISCHER: IF YOU LET GAME AND FISH LEVEE A FEE FOR LICENSES. A FEE FOR CERTAIN PERMITS AND LEAVE IT UP TO THEM, A DOT TO USE MARY JO'S EXAMPLE TO LET INSURANCE COMPANIES SURCHARGE FOR ROADS, YOU HAVE SET A PRECEDENT. YOU CAN'T COME IN AFTER YEARS OF THAT AND SAY THAT'S NOT WHAT WE MEANT. THIS IS DIFFERENT. NO, IT'S NOT.

LUIGE DEL PUERTO: THIS COULD ALL BECOME MOOT DEPENDING ON MEDICAID EXPANSION AND OBAMA CARE. IF REPUBLICANS REPLACING OBAMA CARE SUCCEED IN THAT, THIS MIGHT NOT BE A SUBJECT --

MARY JO PITZL: IN FACT THE MINUTE THE OBAMA CARE AFFORDABLE CARE ACT WAS TO BE REPEALED THAT ASSESSMENT WOULD BE GONE. THIS MIGHT BE OVER RIDDEN BY CONGRESS. THIS IS THE COURT OF APPEALS, TAKE ITS TIME DOING THIS AND NOBODY EXPECTS NO MATTER THE OUTCOME, IF THERE IS MEDICAID EXPANSION IT WILL GO TO THE SUPREME COURT.

TED: IT NEEDS A SIMPLE MAJORITY. IF IT'S A TAX IT NEEDS 2 THIRDS VOTE.

HOWARD FISCHER: THAT GOES BACK TO A 1992 CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT APPROVED BY VOTERS TO PUT CONTROL ON THE MAJORITY DOING WHAT THEY WANTED TO. AGAIN, HOW DO YOU DETERMINE -- THE QUESTION IS, A TAX IN GENERAL, THE AMOUNT IS SET BY THE LEGISLATURE. WE ARE RAISING THE SALES TAX A PENNY, AND IT AFFECTS A GENERAL GROUP AND GOES INTO THE GENERAL FUND OF STATE TREASURY. THAT MAY OR MAY NOT BE TOO NARROW FOR THE COURT.

TED: WE WILL TAKE A SHORT BREAK. WHEN WE COME BACK WE'LL DISCUSS THE INITIATIVE EFFORTS TO TOUGHEN THE LEGISLATIVE PROCESS.

TED: WE ARE BACK. THE INITIATIVE PROCESS HAS BEEN UNDER ATTACK, MARY JO, BY THE LEGISLATURE. THIS WEEK WE HAD ACTIVITY INCLUDING HEARINGS -- OR SHOULD I SAY HEAR? THE ABBREVIATED VERSION?

MARY JO PITZL: WE HAVE HOUSE BILL 2404. IT'S NOT NECESSARILY, ACCORDING TO THE PROPONENTS AN ATTACK. WE WANT TO GET UNDER THE HOOD AND TINKER WITH IT AND CHANGE IT BECAUSE THEY BELIEVE THERE IS FRAUD IN THE PROCESS. THERE ARE A NUMBER OF MEASURES INCLUDING GETTING RID OF THE SIGNATURE PAID BY THE SIGNATURE. IT'S AN INCENTIVE TO GET PAID BY THE SIGNATURE. THIS PUTS THEM ON THE MINIMUM WAGE. THAT'S WHY WE ARE HERE. THAT'S WHY WE HAVE THIS BILL. A COMMITTEE HEARING ROOM WAS PACKED -- OVER PACKED YESTERDAY, SOME PEOPLE WERE IN AN OVERFLOW ROOM. TO CONTROL THE CROWD AND WORK THAT THE HOUSE WAYS AND MEANS COMMITTEE WERE TRYING TO LIMIT TESTIMONY TO ONE MINUTE. THE CHAMBER COUNCIL GOT UP AND HE HAD THREE MINUTES. AND IT'S ANNOUNCED YOU HAVE ONE MINUTE INCLUDING THE TIME TO WALK UP THERE TO INTRODUCE YOURSELF.

LUIGE DEL PUERTO: HOW LONG DO YOU THINK IT WOULD TAKE SPONSORS SUPPORTERS TO EXPLAIN THE BILL? LESS THAN A MINUTE? THE HEARING SHOWS IN THE PEOPLE'S HOUSE EVERYBODY'S EQUAL BUT SOME PEOPLE ARE MORE EQUAL THAN OTHERS.

MARY JO PITZL: THE SPEAKER THAT CAME UP AFTER THE CHAMBER WAS ALLOWED THREE MINUTES. AS SOON AS SHE WAS DONE, IT WENT BACK TO ONE. YOU HAD REPRESENTATIVE THORPE KEEPING TIME.

TED: IT SOUNDS LIKE THEY WERE MORE CONCERNED ABOUT THE TIMING THAN WHAT PEOPLE HAD TO SAY.

HOWARD FISCHER: THEY KNEW WHAT THEY WERE GOING TO VOTE. THEY HATE THE MARIJUANA INITIATIVE. WE ARE GOING TO REFORM THE PROCESS, LITTLE THINGS LIKE A BOND REQUIREMENT. WHAT ARE WE BONDING AGAINST? ISSUES? ISSUES OF WHO IS LIABLE IF SOMETHING GOES WRONG. SANDY BAR FROM THE SIERRA CLUB SAID IF WE GET THE MARGINS WRONG, DO YOU THROW OUT THE WHOLE PETITION? LAWMAKERS HATE PEOPLE WRITING THEIR OWN LAWS BECAUSE THEY DON'T INFLUENCE THE CHAMBER.

TED: WE HAVE HAD THEM ON THE PROGRAM. THEY LIKE THE IDEA OF TINKERING UNDER THE HOOD. THEY SAY ARIZONA IS FOR SALE, OUTSIDE INTERESTS ARE COMING IN TO SPEND MONEY AND THIS IS NOT WHAT THE FOUNDERS INTENDED.

LUIGE DEL PUERTO: THAT'S AN INTERESTING QUESTION. ONE OF THE BILLS SAYS YOU CAN BE PAID BY SIGNATURES BUT ONLY BY BALLOT INITIATIVES BUT NOT TO CANDIDATES. THE SPONSOR HAS IN HIS SIGNATURE PAID PETITION. NOT ONLY THAT, THIS IDEA THAT -- LET ME BACKTRACK A BIT, THE CONTEXT IS THAT THE LEGISLATURE AND PEOPLE HAVE BEEN BUTTING HEADS FOR A LONG TIME. THEY DON'T LIKE THE FACT THAT WHEN THEY DO SOMETHING THE VOTERS LIKE, THE VOTERS SAY, WE'LL OVERRULE YOU. THAT'S HAPPENED SEVERAL TIMES. CERTAIN INTERESTS IN THE LEGISLATURE HAVE MORE SAY.

MARY JO PITZL: THAT'S THE POINT. THE PEOPLE CAN GO TO THE BALLOT, BUT IT'S INCREASINGLY DIFFICULT TO DO. THERE IS A CITIZEN REFERENDUM TRYING TO OPPOSE THE SENATE DARK MONEY BILL. THESE THINGS ARE DIFFICULT TO DO. MOST PEOPLE RUNNING INITIATIVES SAY IT WON'T KILL IT. YOU HAVE TO HAVE A LOT OF MONEY TO DO THIS BECAUSE YOU NEED TO PAY YOUR CIRCULATORS. YOU CAN'T DO IT WITH SPONSORS EVEN THOUGH THE BILL SAYS YOU CAN.

TED: YOU EFFECTIVELY KILL IT. THE COURTS HAVE TO STEP IN AND SAY WHAT'S GOING ON?

HOWARD FISCHER: AT WHAT POINT YOU HAVE OVERRULED THE RIGHT. THERE IS ANOTHER BILL THAT SAYS YOU CAN'T TAKE OUT OF STATE MONEY FOR INITIATIVES. THAT DOESN'T APPLY TO GOVERNOR DUCEY AND THE MONEY HE GOT FROM THE KOCH BROTHERS. IN 1912 THEY WANTED THE PROCESS AND AT WHAT POINT HAVE YOU OVERRULED IT? THE COURTS MAY WEIGH IN BEFORE THAT. MY GUESS IS IF THIS GOES THROUGH THERE WILL BE A REFERENDUM DRIVE TO PUT THIS ON THE BALLOT. THAT'S HOW WE GOT THE VOTER PROTECTION ACT. ONCE AGAIN, THE LEGISLATOR SAID THE VOTERS DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING SO YOU GOT VOTER PROTECTION.

TED: GOVERNOR DUCEY, HOW WOULD HE RESPOND TO THIS?

LUIGE DEL PUERTO: THE BEST WAY TO DESCRIBE IT, VERY CAUTIOUS ON THE FRONT BUT UNDER THE TABLE, HIS ADMINISTRATION IS SUPPORTING THE CHAMBER POSITION. IF YOU RECALL, YOU GOT -- YOU KNOW, A COUPLE OF AGENCIES THAT HAVE GONE TO -- BASICALLY GONE TO THE COURT AND SAID, LOOK, THIS NEEDS TO BE DONE. I GUESS THAT'S --

TED: I ASK THE QUESTION BECAUSE THE GOVERNOR WOULD HAVE TO SAY I KNOW THE PEOPLE WANT THIS, BUT NO.

MARY JO PITZL: IF HE WERE TO SUPPORT IT, HE WOULD TRY TO MAKE THE SAME ARGUMENT THAT THE SPONSORS ARE. THIS IS A CHECK ON FRAUD AND FORGERY. TO YOUR QUESTION ABOUT CRITICS SAYING THIS MAKES ARIZONA FOR SALE. THAT BEGS THE QUESTION, IT'S NOT ALREADY? YES, INITIATIVES ARE DIFFICULT AND YOU NEED SOMEONE WITH A LOT OF MONEY. WHY DOES IT MATTER THAT IT COMES FROM OUT OF STATE? OUR CURRENT GOVERNOR GOT ELECTED WITH OUT OF STATE FUNDING.

HOWARD FISCHER: LOOK AT THE COMPANIES THAT ARE MEMBER OF THE CHAMBER OF COMMERCE. MANY ARE OUT OF STATE CORPORATIONS, INCORPORATED OUT OF STATE, HEADQUARTERED OUT OF STATE, OH THAT'S DIFFERENT. THEIR INTERESTS IN MINING LAWS AND EVERYTHING ELSE, THAT'S SOMEHOW BETTER.

LUIGE DEL PUERTO: IT'S REALLY POLITICAL. THE INITIATIVE PROCESS HAS BEEN MORE SUCCESSFUL WITH THOSE LIBERAL PROGRESSIVE THAN BY ORGANIZATIONS DESCRIBED WITH THE LEFT IF YOU WILL. THAT'S ANOTHER REASON WE SEE THIS REPUBLICAN LED LEGISLATURE. THEY'LL DENY IT BUT THEY ARE ATTACKING THE INITIATIVE PROCESS.

TED: LET'S KEEP MOVING HERE. WHAT IS JLBC AND WHY ARE THEY NOT THROWING OUT THE SAME NUMBER AS THE SENATOR IS?

MARY JO PITZL: IT'S THE JOINT LEGISLATIVE BUDGET COMMITTEE. IT'S A COMMITTEE MADE UP OF LAWMAKERS, IT'S THE BUDGET ARM OF THE STATE LEGISLATURE. THEY ANALYZE STATE SPENDING, ANALYZE THE BILLS. THEY LOOK AT THE SCHOOL VOUCHER BILL AND HAD A FIGURE OF 25,000,000, CONSIDERABLY HIGHER THAN THE BILL SPONSORS.

HOWARD FISCHER:NOT ONLY THAT. THE SENATOR IS SPENDING 95 A YEAR AND VOUCHERS ARE 6500. IF YOU ARE GOING FROM A $4,800 STATE AID TO SCHOOLS, TO $5,300 VOUCHER AS STAFF POINTED OUT, THE MATH DOESN'T WORK.

TED: AND DEMOCRATIC SENATOR WAS ON EARLIER THIS WEEK. HE HAD TROUBLE WITH THE NUMBERS AS WELL. HERE'S WHAT HE SAID.

MARTIN QUEZADA: SHE'S TALKING ABOUT LOCAL FUND, STATE FUNDS AND FEDERAL DOLLARS, BUT THE ISSUE IS STATE TAXES. WE ARE IN CONTROL OF STATE MONEY. IN STATE TAXES WE'LL PAY OUT RATHER THAN TAKING IN.

TED: HOWIE, MY UNDERSTANDING IS, THE SENATOR HEARS THE ARGUMENT, EVEN IF IT COSTS MORE, IT GIVES MORE CHOICE TO PARENTS.

HOWARD FISCHER: THAT'S TRUE. I HAVE THE CHOICE TO SEND MY CHILD TO HEBREW SCHOOL AT STATE EXPENSE. HOMESCHOOLING YOUR CHILD, MORE CHOICE SURE. THE QUESTION BECOMES, IS THAT THE PROPER ROLE OF THE STATE OR SHOULD WE FUND THE PUBLIC SCHOOLS TO THE POINT WERE NOT 48TH OR 49TH AND THEN YOU HAVE REAL CHOICE.

LUIGE DEL PUERTO: THE OTHER POLITICAL QUESTION IS, WITH A PRICE TAG OF $25 MILLION BY 2020, WILL THE LEGISLATORS SAY, SURE, LET'S DO THAT. LET'S CARVE OUT THE MONEY AND THAT MONEY THEN IS NOT GOING TO OTHER STATE PRIORITIES. ALSO, THE JLBC REPORT, THERE IS A SAVINGS TO THE STATE. THIS SAVINGS CLEARLY HAPPENS IF A CHARTER SCHOOL STUDENT, ONE OF THE PILLARS OF THE SCHOOL CHOICE PROGRAM TRANSFERRED TO A PRIVATE SCHOOL. THEN YOU SEE A 600 SAVINGS.

HOWARD FISCHER: OF THE 1.1 MILLION STUDENTS IN SCHOOL ONLY A FRACTION ARE IN CHARTER SCHOOL BECAUSE THEY HAVE THE CHOICE THEY WANT. WE ARE SAYING WE NEED MONEY FOR TEACHER'S SALARIES. YOU KNOW WHAT'S IN THE BUDGET FOR TEACHER SALARIES NEXT YEAR? $13 MILLION. $25 MILLION IS GOING TO VOUCHERS.

TED: WE HAVE A COUPLE OF THINGS LEFT HERE. THE COYOTE ARENA PROPOSAL. WHY ARE THEY HOT AND FIRED TO GET A NEW ARENA. THEY HAVE ONE IN GLENDALE?

MARY JO PITZL: THEY DO, BUT THEY DON'T LIKE IT. HE SEES THIS AS A WAY TO KEEP THE BUSINESS IN ARIZONA. HE'S CONVINCED IF WE DON'T FIND THE COYOTES A NEW DEN, THEY'LL LEAVE THE STATE AND THAT WOULD BE A BIG LOSS.

TED: AND HOW HE WANTS TO PAY FOR THIS.

HOWARD FISCHER: IT'S A VARIETY OF SPECIAL DISTRICTS PAYING FOR IT. THE BINGO ON THE SIDE. IT'S ONE OF THOSE CONVOLUTED SCHEMES DESIGNED TO SAY, IT WON'T COST TAXPAYERS MONEY.

TED: IT SOUNDS LIKE IT WILL COST THE STATE A COUPLE HUNDRED MILLION DOLLARS AND THE COYOTES THROW IN 75 AND YOU HAVE A NEW ARENA.

LUIGE DEL PUERTO: IF YOU DEVELOP THIS ONE ARENA, YOU WILL GET REVENUE FROM THE SALES TAXES THAT GO IN THERE AND AS A RESULT OF THAT, YOU CAN RAISE THE MONEY. THAT'S THE STATE PORTION OF IT. WE DON'T KNOW WHERE IT WILL BE BUILT. ASU WAS OPEN HAVING THE STADIUM IN THEIR OWN PROPERTY. IT WOULDN'T BE PAYING THE GOVERNMENT BUT WE DON'T KNOW WHERE NOW.

HOWARD FISCHER: IT GOES BEYOND THAT. WE'LL BUILD THE NEW STADIUM SOMEWHERE RAISING SALES TAX FOR THE BUSINESSES AROUND IT. AREN'T IS SALES TAXES BEING GENERATED AROUND THE GLENDALE BUSINESSES.

TED: HALF GOES TO THE TEAM FOR THE CONSTRUCTION COSTS NOT TO YOU, LUIGE.

LUIGE DEL PUERTO: RIGHT AND THE OTHER QUESTION --

TED: GOTTA STOP YOU. TIMES UP.

HOWARD FISCHER: THIS IS THE INITIATIVE.

TED: TIME IS UP, HOWIE.

Mary Jo Pitzl: Arizona Republic; Howard Fischer: Capitol Media Services; Luige Del Puerto: Arizona Capitol Times

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