Our weekly feature focuses on issues that are bubbling up at the State Legislature and around Arizona. Tonight, Andy Gordon, partner in the law firm Coppersmith, Gordon, Schermer and Brockelman goes head to head with Stan Barnes, founder of The Copperstate Consulting Group.
>>Larry Lemmons:
Tonight on "Horizon", we begin a four-part series examining the military in Arizona, and its impact on Arizonans. And, two political types go head to head on issues that affect Arizona in our regular Monday feature, "One-On-One". Next, on "Horizon".
>>Announcer:
"Horizon" is made possible by contributions from the Friends of Eight, members of your Arizona PBS Station. Thank you.
>>Larry Lemmons:
Good evening, and welcome to "Horizon", I'm Larry Lemmons. Tonight, we begin a four-part series, "Arizona Military Affairs". Over the course of the week, we'll look at veteran health care, and what the guard or reservists can expect in the way of support. Tonight, we see how much Arizona contributes to the American military at home and abroad.
Larry Lemmons:
According to the Governor's Military Affairs Commission, Arizona's military facilities are located on over a dozen separate sites that range in size from less than 100 acres to over 2 million acres. The most well-known sites include the Yuma Proving Grounds, the Barry M. Goldwater Range, and Davis-Monthan Air Force Base and in the Phoenix Metropolitan Area, the largest military installation, Luke Air Force Base, has provided pilots for the military for over 60 years.
>>David Orr:
We fly 37,000 sortees every year. 50,000 hours over the Valley of the Sun. We are producing nearly 400 F-16 combat-ready fighter pilots ready to go to Iraq, Afghanistan, wherever our nation calls, in the preservation of freedom.
>>Larry Lemmons:
Luke Air Force Base has been known as home of the fighter pilots since the Second World War. Named after the first aviator to win the Medal of Honor, the base is represented by the 56th Fighter Wing, the Air Force's largest and one of the most decorated units in Air Force history.
>>David Orr:
We have a history, and it's been consistent since 9/11. And in all of our past wars over the last 16 years of continuous combat operations of F-16 pilots from the 56th Fighter Wing at Luke Air Force Base doing great things in our wars.
>>Larry Lemmons:
because the conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan involve so many ground forces, the Air Force is anxious to point out the role it plays in support of those missions.
>>David Orr:
You might think if you're a normal community member, "well, there's not a lot of flying going on there in Iraq." But oh, boy. You know, the Air Force is heavily engaged. 25,000 Air Force members in Iraq, Afghanistan, some nearly 8,000 Arizonans wearing Air Force blue uniforms serving our nation. It's just an incredible thing.
>>Larry Lemmons:
Various forms of training are undertaken at Luke, but the most common is the seven months of intense instruction for new lieutenants fresh out of pilot school. Luke training involves six to eight weeks of academics, time in the simulator, and different types of flying instruction. A typical flight usually lasts over a hour, after which every detail of the mission is scrutinized. Students generally work 12 hours a day, but presumably, the flight itself is the most anticipated part of that day.
>>David Orr:
If you were to come into duty about four hours prior to that, generally, to mission plan, the given sortee whether air-to-air, air-to-ground or a transition, sort of. Two and a half hours prior, sometimes two hours 15 minutes prior, somewhere in that range, he does a briefing with his instructor pilot, and they go through every detail, administratively how the sortee is going to work out, the sortee being the mission you're going to fly, then actually getting into the details of the tactical portion that they're going to fly. And a normal pre-flight and starting engines before takeoff and takeoff checklist is going to be probably 200 or 300 checklist items to do. So we make sure all the switches are in place. And then when we get engine start, we go through a long, detailed process of making sure the engine's good, making sure our flight controllers are good, hydraulics, oil, you name it, every part of that system is ready to go. And the maintainers on the ground, our dedicated crew chief on the ground and his assist, which could be a weapons specialist, it could be an avionics specialist that are assisting the launch will take care of any details too as they walk around the airplane. So this brand-new lieutenant who goes through this seven month course ends up graduating as a new mission ready pilot, he goes on to his follow-on assignment. And within a couple short months, he could be in combat flying combat sortees in the preservation of our nation's freedom. So really a unique mission at Luke Air Force Base.
>>Larry Lemmons:
Luke also trains maintenance specialists for the F-16, which is still the workhorse of the Air Force. The Base has deployed 1300 airmen in the last two years to fight in various operations. A loss of personnel has put a strain on some units.
>>David Orr:
Talk about the unique mission of the 56th Fighter Wing, and it's a very, very high operations tempo kind of mission. Launching 160 sortees every day is a busy operation. We'll have our first launch at 7:00 in the morning, and we're gonna go until midnight launching airplanes and recovering airplanes. So when, for instance, our civil engineers duty deployments or security forces, for example, have half of their active duty force in place in the 56th Fighter Wing because all of their airmen are deployed or 50% of them are deployed, it is a strain no doubt.
>>Larry Lemmons:
Joining me now to talk about Arizona's role in the larger military picture, the President and CEO of Greater Phoenix Leadership, Retired Brigadier General of the United States Air Force, Tom Browning, and the spokesman for the Arizona National Guard, Major Paul Aguirre. Welcome, gentlemen, thanks so much for coming in and talking with us tonight.
>>Tom Browning:
Good to be here.
>>Larry Lemmons:
General Browning, we know Luke Air Force Base isn't the only major facility in the State. Could you talk also a little bit about some of the other major facilities what they do?
>>Tom Browning:
There are a total of 19 military installations in the state of Arizona, and that goes from very small units up to very large units. You have Luke Air Force Base, which trains all active duty F-16 pilots in the Air Force. Davis-Monthan, which houses a multitude of missions, but the most visible one is there, the schoolhouse for the A-10.
>>Larry Lemmons:
The "Tank-Buster"?
>>Tom Browning:
The "Tank-Buster", yep. It's an airplane built around a big gun. And they're very effective, particularly in support of the ground troops, the Army and Marine Corps. You have Fort Huachuca outside of Sierra Vista, which is a very large military installation. It's the home of the Intelligence School, it's the home of the Signal Corps, it's the home of the UAV or unmanned vehicle training for the Army, and they also have a very, very large test function. Over in Yuma, you actually have two, you have the Marines Corps Air Station in Yuma that conducts both operational and primary training for Navy and Marine Corps pilots, and then, you have Yuma Proving Ground, which is a very, very large test facility and they test a multitude of things. Those are the major installations in this State. And then you have many other installations, many of which are primarily the National Guard, either Army or Air National Guard. And I'll let Major Aguirre talk about that.
>>Larry Lemmons:
Absolutely. Major Aguirre, what are some of the - I know Papago Park, obviously, is a very major area for the National Guard.
>>Paul Aguirre:
Yea, that's where the National Guard is headquartered, several major commands are housed at Papago. But in addition to that, you have Camp Navajo, which is a training site outside of Flagstaff and Belmont, where it's a regional training institute where different states from all over the country come there and do their training. And along with that, it's an interesting installation because it's the only National Guard installation that's part of the START [Strategic Arms Reduction Treaty] Treaty. The Russians still come over and inspect the missile engines. That's a part of
>>Larry Lemmons:
We didn't even know they did that anymore.
>>Paul Aguirre:
Then there's armories, as the distinguished general talked about, there's armories all over the state. You also have the Western Army Training Site, which is one of two that the Army National Guard uses for all of its aviators training in Apache and Blackhawk Helicopter operations there in Marana, which is north of Tucson. And you have armories from Yuma to Kingman to Show Low to Kingman, all over the state, all throughout Tucson.
>>Larry Lemmons:
Include all the equipment and materiel.
>>Paul Aguirre:
And the units. And the units, primarily. And I guess at the end of the day, that's the message I like to impart about the National Guard. A little different organization, compared to the active duty component. We train and work together. Seeing that piece on Luke Air Force Base, the general was speaking a little bit earlier, you know, the majority of the refueling that they do on the Barry Goldwater Range out there are done by the National Guard unit out of Sky Harbor [International Airport]. So we train very closely on the Air and on the Army side. And on the Army National Guard side, you know, it's important that people understand the majority of these people are citizen soldiers. That is that they're plumbers and electricians and doctors and attorneys that work out in the community, but also have a commitment to the military. They were in beforehand, maybe had prior service active duty. And now, they're neighbors, the citizen soldiers are also members of the National Guard or the ready reserves who just since 9/11 have been extremely busy and really part of the operational tempo that's going on in Iraq and Afghanistan and other places.
>>Larry Lemmons:
Operation Jump Start also, there's obviously a huge presence of the Guard down on the border. Can you talk -- who's involved in that? And how much of that is Arizona?
>>Paul Aguirre:
Well, Arizona has the predominance of the effort here. The two border patrol sectors that are here in Arizona, that's the Yuma, Tucson sector are, the top priority for border patrol as they define it nationwide. So because of that, throughout the four southwest border states, the priority of the effort has come here to Arizona, or 40%. President Bush on Monday, May 15th of last year, announced Operation Jumpstart and said he wanted to send up to 6,000 National Guard personnel to the border. He talked about 40% of that coming to Arizona. That's what's happened. We've had a lot of different states and territories provide the necessary soldiers and armor to support the mission. We've had over 50 states and territories provide some of its National Guard personnel. And close to 14,000 personnel strong have come and rotated through Arizona supporting this mission.
>>Larry Lemmons:
General Browning, Colonel Orr was telling me when we did that story one anecdote in that because of the deployment, the security forces now are contracted out from companies there in the area. So they are basically civilians at Luke Air Force Base, which are providing security. That's just one thing they were talking about, the strain that's being put on the active duty military. Do you have any other examples of that?
>>Tom Browning:
Yes. The entire military establishment is strained because of the war in Iraq and Afghanistan. Active, guard, reserve, everybody has to share the pain, so to speak. In order to be able to compensate for that and continue to do the mission and all the support functions that are required in the Air Force, Luke Air Force Base, for example, is forced to contract out some of the support functions like security guards at the gate. That doesn't mean we don't have any security in place. We do.
>>Larry Lemmons:
No, no.
>>Tom Browning:
And they are more specialized roles. But at Luke Air Force Base, which is primarily a training organization, you'll see that most of the impact is bore by the support forces. Medical personnel from the clinic and the hospital, civil engineers, transportation squadron, supply squadron and so on. And they augment the forces. During [Operation] Desert Storm, in 1991-92, we actually deployed some of our airplanes and our pilots in our weapons systems operating at F-15E. But right now, the main pilots and airplanes that were deployed out of Luke were part of the reserves that we stationed at Luke.
>>Larry Lemmons:
Governor Sebelius up in Kansas also pointed to a part of the problems with National Guards around the country are having. Could you talk about Arizona's situation right now in terms of the strain being put on resources as well?
>>Paul Aguirre:
Well, there's 7,600 members of the Arizona Army and Air National Guard. And of those 7600, approximately 5,000 have been activated, or put on Federal status, since 9/11. So that's a little unusual and not precedented historically, anyway. In addition to that, which she was mainly talking about was the tornadoes that hit her state, and the fact that a lot of -- the National Guard is short of a lot of equipment. In Arizona, we have 43% of the equipment we need based on our military organizations that belong to the Arizona National Guard. Of that, we have 35% here in the state because another 8% have either been left in Iraq or Afghanistan, or lost to the war effort. So I think what the Governor of Kansas was speaking towards was the importance that needs to be placed on reequipping the National Guard, resetting this, and ensuring that they have the National Guard has the right equipment to support emergencies that happen in any state, which, by the way, I think Arizona does. We've done a continual planning with our emergency management teams and our first responders to ensure that we do. That along with emergency management systems compact that's signed by the State, which basically each state signs for. So you have an inventory in what every state has so you can respond to a disaster. Those things, coupled with the fact that Congress is addressing it, we feel confident we'll be getting some of that. You need to train with the equipment you go to war with. And that's of utmost importance. I think that's where the critical need is right now.
>>Larry Lemmons:
Weren't you saying, though, that Arizona was down to about 35%? What you're talking about is even if it gets funding, we're talking about three years down the line before we can get to that point where they can train with the equipment.
>>Paul Aguirre:
Yeah. That's the way it looks. But, you know, it's really a fine line. It's a double-edged sword because at the end of the day, The National Guard has met every single mission it's been given. So, on the one hand, we talk about the equipment shortages, and how important it is to train with the equipment you go to war with. But on the other hand, you know, the National Guard during Katrina -- Hurricanes Katrina and Wilma, The National Guard had over 50,000 soldiers and airmen, they're in the Gulf Coast within one week. I think that's a story that doesn't get told enough, and what happened was the Governor ultimately called in other governors and other Adjuncts General that sent in their troops to go support them. Arizona had 600 people in there in theater within just a couple weeks after that happened. We got transportation units, military police. So we feel the National Guard is equipped to handle emergencies. And yes, we'd like to have the equipment to train on as we go to war, but it is what it is right now.
>> Larry Lemmons:
We're out of time. Thanks so much, Major Aguirre, General Tom Browning for coming down and talking to us today. Thanks.
>>Tom Browning:
You're welcome
>>Paul Aguirre:
My pleasure
>>Larry Lemmons:
Every Monday evening, we feature two political experts going "One-on-One" on issues that affect the state. Tonight, talking about the budget, presidential politics, and more, a partner at the law firm, Coppersmith, Gordon, Schermer and Brockelman, Andy Gordon, and the founder and President of Copper State Consulting Group, a political consulting firm here in the Valley, Stan Barnes.
>>Andy Gordon:
So last week, we were being told that Speaker Weiers is going to bring his budget to the floor, he had three Democrats. He was going to get some more Democrats. The House would pass their budget. It was a new day. And once again, we see Speaker Weiers doesn't quite get the drill and can't count. What in the world? How does the Speaker bring the budget to the floor and lose?
>>Stan Barnes:
Yeah. It's a pretty rare circumstance. But I'm not sure that Weiers lost. I mean, think of it this way [laughter]
>>Andy Gordon:
OK.
>>Stan Barnes:
Wait until I give you this. There is a moment in time when the "board of truth", we call it, just has to take over. There's positioning on both sides. Everybody is rattling swords, everybody is saying, "I got to have this or I don't do that," and the Speaker kind of, to his credit, busted the logjam, if you will, and cleared the deck. So, there's a new variable at the Capitol now. A lot of the B.S. is gone, a lot of the happy talk is gone, and they're getting down to brass tacks. In the legislative parlance, you have to fight before you make love. And that's what they're doing. And it's a good sign that they're making progress.
>>Andy Gordon:
Well, it's not clear to me how the Speaker makes progress -- nothing personal, Stan.
>>Stan Barnes:
No, no.
>>Andy Gordon:
But the Speaker brings his budget to the floor, and he lost. He lost by four votes. The Senate has their budget, it passes out with 26 out of 30 votes, I think. The Governor signs it. Why doesn't the House just pass the Senate budget? Let's be done with it, and everyone go home? Because we know that's how it's going to come out. The ultimate budget is going to be very close to that Senate budget. Why is Weiers hanging in?
>>Stan Barnes:
I think he's hanging in because the -- he's the guy, he considers himself the flag carrier for the Republican side of the aisle. He thinks that Senator [Tim] Bee actually went a little too fast to the moderated compromised budget. He wants to make the deal move from the Republican banner. And that's, you know, that's a good thing in our government. So you know where the Republicans are coming from, you know where the Democrats are coming from. Trust me. They're going to wrap it up fast. I know they are. Now look, that's going to be old news really quick. Let's move on to something more important.
>>Andy Gordon:
This is a fun show, because you and I love politics--
>>Stan Barnes:
Right.
>>Andy Gordon:
We love watching presidential politics.
>>Stan Barnes:
Right. Your party, my party both. They do these debates where they got 10 guys onstage, seven of them you can't name, three of them--
>>Andy Gordon:
They all look alike.
>>Stan Barnes:
Yea, they all look alike,
>>Andy Gordon:
All White guys.
>>Stan Barnes:
And, you know, I'm having a hard time staying up, keeping track. In my party, when I watch the debate, I want McCain - I want to hear from McCain and Romney and Giuliani. The others are all running for something else, to be in a cabinet or be in the Senate someday back home. What about you? When you watch these debates, do you keep with it?
>>Andy Gordon:
No, look, it's not going to be Dennis Kucinich this year. We all understand--
>>Stan Barnes:
Are you sure?
>>Andy Gordon:
I'm sure. Duncan Hunter, know what? Actually one of the interesting questions I think this year is, are the ultimate winners in the primary? I mean, if you look at it from the Democratic side, you know, you got Edwards, you got Senator Clinton, Senator Obama, but you've got Al Gore sitting out there. The true 800-pound gorilla--
>>Stan Barnes:
Yea.
>> Andy Gordon: --
I mean, probably the most qualified person to hold the job hanging on the sidelines. In your case, you got Fred Thompson, you've got Newt Gingrich, no one really picking up the Religious Right.
>>Stan Barnes:
Fred Thompson, you're dead right about, in a sense that this is the first time in our lifetime, for sure, in fact, it's the first time in 100 years or so there hasn't been a heir apparent just ready in one of the parties. I mean, this is the most wide open circumstance we've seen. Fred Thompson is waiting for the Republicans to not rally.
>>Andy Gordon:
Although he will answer "Is Obama qualified?" question
>>Stan Barnes:
Yea, that's right, that's right. And I think Al Gore is doing the same thing. He's kinda waiting to see if Hillary actually can do it or not do it.
>>Andy Gordon:
Um, yeah. Let me ask you a question. I don't mean to put you on the spot. But Governor Romney's electability. I mean, there's a lot of talk , "Can we elect a Mormon President?"
>>Stan Barnes:
Right.
>>Andy Gordon:
What do you think?
>>Stan Barnes:
It's a fun question. It reminds me what I studied in school about John Kennedy and his Catholicism. I think the answer is yes, we can, but I think it is a real factor. When Al Sharpton of your party--
>>Andy Gordon:
Absolutely.
>>Stan Barnes:
running for President, when he took this kind of cheap shot at Romney and his Mormon faith--
>>Andy Gordon:
Absolutely.
>>Stan Barnes:
You see where Al Sharpton went this past week. He went to Salt Lake [City] to say "I'm sorry." the Mormon religion is an interesting one, and we're going to learn more about it because Romney is in the game. But when people find out about it, I don't think they're going to hold it against him politically, and I think he's going to be judged on the fruits of his policies.
>>Andy Gordon:
Well, and his switches.
>>Stan Barnes:
Yes. That's right. On the fruits of his flip-flops. You're right, that's what's going to happen.
>>Andy Gordon:
So, let's take that to the Religious Right. I mean, you talk about Sharpton taking shots at Romney, completely inappropriate.
>>Stan Barnes:
Yeah.
>>Andy Gordon:
But he's taken a lot of shots from the Religious Right, and Mormonism generally from the Religious Right. What do you think the power of the Religious Right is here in Arizona? I mean, the last time in the Governor's race, that was going to be, you know, the Republican's entree, and we saw how well [Len] Munsil did with that. Is it a factor or has it been a factor?
>>Stan Barnes:
I think it's a factor. I think it's less of a factor. I think its best day has -- is behind it. Although, I mean, history is unwritten, and there's a new day in the future. But who knows what will come? But it kind of mirrors the whole Republican expansion and contraction itself. I mean, there was this limited government, go to Washington, Contract with America, all of that. There was Mr. Falwell at his political top. Now he's passed away. Now the Republican machine with the White House and Congress all in Republicans hands hasn't turned what it should. In my own self-analysis, my own party hasn't really delivered like it really should have, controlling all the levers of government, and that's deflated a lot of the Religious Right activism. So I think they're a little less active than they used to be.
>>Andy Gordon:
Well, I mean, it's got to be. I mean, when they're looking at candidates like Giuliani, pro-abortion rights, pro-gay couples, married three times.
>>Stan Barnes:
Right.
>>Andy Gordon:
He's the leading candidate. You wonder, where's the there there?
>>Stan Barnes:
Yeah. I think that it's one of those years where we're going to write down the history of saying, "what an interesting time!". Speaking of, immigration. I think it's the domestic issue of our time, immigration. The domestic issue of our time. And in terms of interesting times we live in, the compromise that it's been promoted by our own Senator Kyl, signed on by our own Senator McCain, and led by folks in your party, Senator Kennedy and others. I don't know if it's gonna make them rock stars, or if they're all going to be voted out of office next time. There's a lot happening.
>>Andy Gordon:
I laugh because we have Senator Kyl running for Senate, and now adopting the Jim Pederson immigration approach. You know, it's an interesting di-- what's going on is interesting because it's much more of an internal shooting war among the Republicans.
>>Stan Barnes:
Well said.
>>Andy Gordon:
I mean, I got an E-Mail from your Party Chair today blasting the new immigration plan being forward by Senators McCain and Kyl. You know, I'm not sure I agree it's the issue. I'm not even sure it's going to be the issue on the Presidential. I mean, the war is still there, and Iraq is going to be the issue. Internal security is an issue. I think crime's back. And to the extent immigration is a surrogate for crime, it might be. But it's a much more divisive issue among the Republicans than it is among the Democrats. And we have some problems, obviously. Labor is not crazy about parts of the bill.
>>Stan Barnes:
Right. Right.
>>Andy Gordon:
But I think it's going to be a more important factor in your primaries than it is in ours, and in the generals.
>>Stan Barnes:
It's splitting the Republican Party in many ways.
>>Andy Gordon:
Yeah. So predictions for this coming week? I understand the Speaker may be trying to bring his budget back to the floor.
>>Stan Barnes:
I think he will.
>>Andy Gordon:
One more time. And what's going to happen?
>>Stan Barnes:
I -- you know, I've been through 18 legislative sessions since I was blessed to have been elected some time ago, and this is the nature of things. I think they're going to end up -- everybody was hoping for Memorial Day holiday. But that's not gonna happen, though maybe the week after. Once the budget is sewn up, then there's a plethora of bills that need to move because there's a lot lobbyist pushing them, and members -- it's the thank you for voting "yes" on the budget. They get their bills to move, and that will take place in about a week's time, and will go up. It's been a good year for Janet Napolitano, that's for sure, and I think she's going to continue to claim victory outside of the budget realm as well.
>>Andy Gordon:
Well, I think what we're going to have, going back to immigration and leaving the legislature is, I think this immigration bill is going to fall apart. It is too big, it's too complicated. The Senators love to talk, but when push comes to shove, I think we're going to see this compromise unravel pretty quickly. So --
>>Merry Lucero:
Continue our series on Arizona military affairs with a look at some of the protected rights of National Guard, and reserve members. Plus, he was the only politician in Arizona who was a Senator, Governor and Chief Justice of the State Supreme Court. The career and accomplishments of Ernest McFarland. Tuesday at 7:00 PM on "Horizon".
>>Larry Lemmons:
Wednesday, we continue our series, "Arizona Military Affairs", with a look at Veteran Healthcare. Thursday, we examine what's been done since the controversy over the Arizona Veteran Home erupted. And Friday, don't forget to join us for the "Journalists' Roundtable". Thanks very much for joining us on "Horizon" tonight. Tomorrow night, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, we will return here. I'm Larry Lemmons. Have a great one. Good night.
>>Announcer:
If you have comments about "Horizon", please contact us at the addresses listed on your screen. Your name and comments may be used on a future edition of "Horizon".
>>Announcer:
"Horizon" is made possible by contributions from the Friends of Eight, members of your Arizona PBS station. Thank you.
Tom Browning:President and CEO of Greater Phoenix Leadership, Retired Brigadier General of the United States Air Force;Major Paul Aguirre:Spokesman, Arizona National Guard;
