Former state attorney general and two-time Democratic nominee for Governor Terry Goddard wants to take anonymous contributions out of Arizona political campaigns.
The “Stop Political Dirty Money Amendment” is a ballot initiative proposed to be part of the 2018 elections. Goddard heads the initiative and believes such a law will bring much-needed transparency to the election process.
If passed, the amendment would require the source of any political contribution of more than $2,500 to be made public information, once the campaign the contribution was made to spends more than $10,000 within a two-year period.
TED SIMONS: COMING UP NEXT ON ARIZONA HORIZON. WE’LL HEAR ABOUT EFFORT TO SHEAD LIGHT ON DARK MONEY IN STATE POLITICS. ALSO TONIGHT WHY SO MANY KIDS ARE BEING SUSPENDED AND EXPELLED FROM PRESCHOOL. AND WE’LL LOOK AT HOW INDIGENOUS CULTURES ARE THREATENED BY CLIMATE CHANGE. THOSE STORIES NEXT ON ARIZONA HORIZON.
TED SIMONS: GOOD EVENING, AND WELCOME TO ARIZONA HORIZON. I'M TED SIMONS. A NEW INITIATIVE HAS BEEN LAUNCHED THAT TARGET'S ANONYMOUS DONATIONS TO ARIZONA POLITICAL CAMPAIGNS IS AN EFFORT TO FIGHT DARK MONEY IN STATE POLITICS. LEADING THE EFFORT IS FORMER ATTORNEY IS GENERAL TERRY GODDARD.
TERRY GODDARD: THANK YOU, IT'S A PLEASURE.
TED SIMONS: THIS OUTLAWED DARK MONEY GROUP STOPPED POLITCAL DARK MONEY THERES A LOT OF TITLES FLOATING AROUND. WHAT ARE WE TALKING ABOUT HERE?
TERRY GODDARD:WE TAKE THE NAME OUTLAWED DIRTY MONEY BECAUSE DARK IS THE ABSESNCE OF LIGHT- THAT’S DESCRIPTIVE BUT FRANKLY WHAT THESE FUNDS, WHICH ARE ANONYMOUS POLITICAL MONEY COMING INTO OUR STATE INTO POLITICAL CAMPAIGNS IN ARIZONA HAVE JUST WASHED THROUGH THE SYSTEM. IT'S THE DOMINANT PLAYER IN ARIZONA POLITICS RIGHT NOW. NOBODY KNOWS WHO THEY ARE BECAUSE BY DESIGN. IN OTHER WORDS, THEY SET UP LEGAL INSTITUTIONS THEY HAVEN’T BROKEN THE LAW BECAUSE ARIZONA HAS THE MOST LENIENT LAWS ON DISCLOSURE IN THE COUNTRY. AND THEY HAVE BEEN ABLE TO CREATE OR DEFEAT POLITICAL CAREERS.
TED SIMONS: HOW DO THEY DO THIS? BECAUSE I KNOW THE CAMPAIGN COMPARES THIS KIND OF ACTIVITY TO MONEY LAUNDERING.
TERRY GODDARD: WELL IT IS, YOU KNOW, I SPENT A LOT OF MY LIFE PROSECUTING MONEY LAUNDERERS. DRUG MONEY THAT IS MOVED BY VARIOUS MEANS ACROSS THE BORDER. NOW I HAVE TO EMPHASIZE, THEY USE THE TECHNIQUES OF MONEY LAUNDERING. BUT THEIR MOVING MONEY THAT’S LEGAL, BUT THEY DON'T WANT IT TO BE TRACED. AND THAT’S EXACTLY WHAT THE DRUG KING PINS DO WITH THEIR PROCEEDS. THEY DON'T WANT YOU TO BE ABLE TO FIGURE OUT WHERE IT ORIGINATED WHEN THEY GET IT INTO THEIR BANK ACCOUNTS. SO WHAT YOU DO IS YOU START WITH CHUNK OF MONEY THAT YOU WANT TO HIDE, THEN YOU FORM A BUNCH OF THESE 501C4 FOUNDATIONS. BIG SPIKE RIGHT AFTER CITIZENS UNITED IN 2010 AND THE NUMBER OF FORMATIONS OF THESE 501C4 BECAUSE THEY DON’T WANT TO HAVE TO DISCLOSE THEIR CONTRIBUTORS. THEN THEY GO THROUGH ONE TO ANOTHER TO ANOTHER, THEY BREAK THE MONEY UP
THEY PUT IT BACK TOGETHER. SO THAT ANY INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER OR ANY VOTER WHO WANTS TO KNOW WHERE THIS MONEY CAME FROM IS GOING TO BE STYMIED. AND SO WE HAVE A PROPOSITION FOR THE ARIZONA CONSTITUTION WHICH REQUIRES THE PERSON WHO SPENDS THE MONEY TO DISCLOSE WHERE IT CAME FROM.
TED SIMONS: BEFORE I GET BACK TO THAT, THESE 501C4’S, WHY ARE NOT THEY NOT TO REQUIRED TO DISCLOSE THEIR DONOR. WHATS GOING ON HERE?
TERRY GODDARD: WELL, THIS IS WHAT YOU CALL A LEGAL- ITS NOT A FICTION BEACSUE ITS VERY REAL BUT IT IS A VERY SMART LAWYERS FIGURES OUT THAT THIS GROUP OF WHO USE TO BE ADVOCACY FOUNDATIONS. WE ALL KNOW THEM. THEIR A LOT OF VERY FINE ORGANIZATIONS THAT HAVE NRA HAS A 501C4. PLANNED PARENTHOOD HAS ONE. THE S.A.R.A CLUB HAS ONE. I MEAN IT’S A PLACE WHERE ACTIVE EDUCATIONAL ACTIVITY TAKES PLACE. AND THERES NOTHING WRONG WITH IT, BUT UNDER THE LAW IT DOESN'T HAVE TO GIVE YOU THE NAMES OF THEIR CONTRIBUTORS. THEY CAN COME IN POLITICS AT A LIMITED EXPENDITURE.
TED SIMONS: SO WHAT DOES YOUR INITIATIVE DO? HOW DO WE MAKE SURE IF- YOU TALK ABOUT FINDING THE ORIGINAL SOURCE OF THE DONATION. WHAT IF I’M THE ORIGINAL SOURCE AND I WANT TO CALL MYSELF THE COMMITTEE TO PROTECT PUPPIES?
TERRY GODDARD: AND YOU PROBABLY WILL.
TED SIMONS: SO HOW DO YOU KNOW IT’S ME?
TERRY GODDARD: YOU ALWAYS HAVE A GREAT NAME, RIGHT?
TED SIMONS: RIGHT, SO HOW DO YOU KNOW?
TERRY GODDARD:THE INITITATIVE THAT WE’RE PASSING HERE ON STREETS TODAY IN ARIZONA TO TRY TO GET IT ON THE BALLOT FOR 2018 BASICLALY SAYS WHOEVER SPENDS THE MONEY, IN OTHER WORDS THE GROUP THAT GOES OUT TO EITHER ELECT OR DEFEAT A CANIDATE OR PROPOSITION. WHEN THEY SPEND THAT MONEY, OVER TEN THOUSAND DOLLARS, THEY HAVE TO AT THE SAME TIME DISCLOSE THE ORIGINAL SOURCE OF THE MONEY. NOW THE ORIGINAL SOURCE IS NOT NECESSARILY THE ONE WHO GAVE YOU LAST CHECK. THAT COULD BE THE COMMITTEE TO PROTECT PUPPIES. WHAT WE WANT TO KNOW IS WHO DEEP IN THE DARK SHADOWS EARNED THE MONEY IN THE FIRST PLACE. AND IT MAY BE A CORPORATION OR IT MAY BE AN INDIVIDUAL. BUT THEY ARE ONES THAT ARE TRYING TO HIDE. THEIR TRYING TO MANIPULATE YOUR VOTE AND MINE BY INDIRECTION, BY STAYING IN THE SHADOWS AND HAVING SOMEONE ELSE DO IT ON THEIR BEHALF. AND THEY THINK THERE IS AN ADVANTAGE TO THEM FOR THAT. AND THE VOTER NEEDS TO KNOW WHO THEY ARE.
TED SIMONS: IS THAT VIABLE THOUGH? IF YOU GO THROUGH SO MANY HOOKS AND LADDERS? IS IT VIABLE- WHO IS GOING TO DO ALL THE RESEARCH AND PROSECUTING?
TERRY GODDARD: GOOD QUESTION. UH, WE HAVE TWO ANSWERS TO THAT QUESTION.
TERRY GODDARD: ONE WE WOULD SET UP THE CITIZEN CLEAN ELECTION COMMISSION WHICH EXISTS TODAY AS THE RULE MAKING AND THE RULE ENFORCING AGENCY. SO THEY HAVE THE ABILITIES, THEY HAVE THE FUNDS, THEY HAVE SOME OF THE EXPERTS TO BE ABLE TO TRACE A DISCLOSURE TO SEE IF WAS LEGITIMATE. WE ALSO HAVE CITIZEN ABILITY THAT THIS INITIATIVE EMPOWERS CITIZENS IF THEY THINK THAT THERE IS SOMETHING SUSPICIOUS, THEY CAN GO TO COURT AND GET A SUBPOENA AND GO DIRECTLY THROUGH DISCLOSURE LINE. IN OTHER WORDS, THE PERSON WHO SPENDS MONEY IS REQUIRED TO TELL YOU WHERE IT CAME FROM. THEY WILL HAVE TO GIVE IN THEIR DISCLOSURE, IT GOES A TO B TO C TO D IF THAT’S IN FACT WHAT HAPPENED.
TED SIMONS: BUT THEY GOT TO SHOW A.
TERRY GODDARD: AND THEIR GOING TO HAVE TO SHOW A, WHICH IS THE ORIGINAL AND THEY ARE GOING TO HAVE TO SHOW A CREDIBLE FINANCIAL STREAM BETWEEN THEM. IN OTHER WORDS, THEY ARE GOING TO HAVE TO SHOW FINANCIAL RECORDS THAT BACK UP WHAT THEY SAY HAPPENED. OTHERWISE THEY’RE GOING TO BE FINED.
TED SIMONS: CRITICS OF THIS AND THERE ARE A LOT OF THEM ESPECIALLY ON THE REPUBLICAN SIDE SAY THAT THIS IS A FIRST AMENDMENT ISSUE. THIS IS PRIVACY ISSUE. THAT ANONYMOUS SPEECH IS PROTECTED.
TERRY GODDARD: LET'S NOT PLAY THE POLITICAL GAME. WE’VE DONE SOME POLLING ON THIS. REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS ARE ALMOST EQUAL.
TED SIMONS: I'M TALKING POLITICAL LEADERSHIP THOUGH.
TERRY GODDARD: POLITICAL LEADERSHIP, YEAH, THAT TENDS TO BE MORE PARTISAN. BOTTOM LINE, YOU RAISE THE QUESTION IS IT A FIRST AMENDMENT VIOLATION. AND THE ANSWER IS THAT IT IS UNEQUIVOCALLY NO. THIS IS NOT ABOUT FREE SPEECH. FOR HEAVENS SAKE, RIGHT NOW IF YOU SUPPORT A CANDIDATE AND GIVE THEM FIFTY BUCKS, YOU GOT TO GIVE YOUR NAME, YOUR ADDRESS, AND YOU OCCUPATION, AND FILE IT WITH THE SECRETARY OF STATE. SO THIS INITIATIVE BASICALLY SAYS YOU DON'T HAVE TO TRACE THE MONEY TO ITS ORIGINAL SOURE UNLESS THAT SOURCE GIVES OVER $2,500. WE ARE NOT INTERESTED AND NOBODY INTERESTED IN THE DISCLOSURE OF A SMALL CONTRIBUTER. WHAT WE’RE LOOKING FOR IS THOSE MAJOR PLAYERS WHO IN SECRET ARE TRYING TO MANIPULATE OUR POLITICAL SYSTEM.
TED SIMONS: AND THOSE MAJOR PLAYERS THAT SAY IF IT IS DISCLOSED THAT WE’RE DONATING TO X, Y, AND Z, WE COULD FACE HARASSMENT, WE COULD FACE THREATS, WE COULD FACE BOYCOTTS, YOU SAY?
TERRY GODDARD: I SAY WELCOME TO THE POLITICAL SYSTEM, BUT YOU USE HARASSMENT AND THREATS AND PHYSICAL VIOLENCE. WE HAVE A TRIP- I MEAN THERE IS A PROVISION IN THIS INITIATIVE THAT SAYS IF SOMEONE HAS A LEGITIMATE FEAR FOR THEIR LIFE, THEIR FAMILY, OR THEY FEAR THEY MAY BE PHYSICALLY HARMED, THEY CAN GET PROTECTION. THEY DON'T HAVE TO DISCLOSE IF THEY CAN MAKE A CREDIBLE SHOWING TO THE CITIZENS ELECTIONS COMMISSION. SO WE DO HAVE A SAFETY VALVE THAT I THINK IS IMPORTANT, THAT NEEDS TO BE THERE. BUT A CORPORATION CAN’T BE TRIPPED, IT CAN’T BE HUNG, AND IT CANT BE HARASSED PHYSICALLY. I DON'T THINK THIS APPLIES TO CORPORATIONS. BOTTOM LINE IS, YES, VOTERS HAVE THE ABILITY TO VOTE WITH THEIR FEET BUT WITH THEIR POCKETBOOKS. THAT'S PART OF THE POLITICAL SYSTEM. MY AUTHORITY ON THIS IS SOMEBODY I DON'T ALWAYS QUOTE IS JUSTICE SCALIA. WHO SAID IN VERY MEMORABLE OPINION BASICALLY THAT THE STANDING UP FOR YOUR OPINION IS A BASIC PART OF DEMOCRACY. HE DIDN'T WANT AS A JUSTICE OF THE SUPREME COURT TO BE PART OF ANYTHING WHICH WOULD ALLOW POLITICAL DEBATE TO TAKE PLACE IN SECRET. HE SAID THAT DOESN'T SOUND LIKE A HOME OF THE BRAVE TO ME. AND FRANKLY IN ARIZONA, WE’RE NOT THE HOME OF THE BRAVE. WE HAVE AN AWFUL LOT OF PEOPLE WHO ARE TRYING TO MANIPULATE OUR SYSTEM FROM SECRET. AND ITS TIME THAT IS OVER.
TED SIMONS: WE WILL KEEP OUR AUDIENCE UPDATED CERTAINLY ABOUT THIS PARTICULAR INITIATIVE DRIVE. ITS GOOD TO SEE YOU AGAIN.
TERRY GODDARD: I HOPE YOUR AUDIENCE WILL SIGN A FEW PETITIONS. THEIR OUT THERE NOW AND WE NEED THEIR HELP.
TED SIMONS: THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.
