We hear from Democratic Representative Tom O’Halleran, who is running to defend his seat in Congress. His Republican opponent, Wendy Rogers, is expected to appear on Arizona Horizon at a later date to talk about her candidacy.
TED: GOOD EVENING, AND WELCOME TO "ARIZONA HORIZON." I'M TED SIMONS. OUR 2018 ELECTION COVERAGE CONTINUES WITH A FOCUS ON ARIZONA'S FIRST CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICT WHERE DEMOCRAT TOM O'HALLERAN IS RUNNING TO DEFEND HIS SEAT AGAINST REPUBLICAN CHALLENGER, WENDY ROGERS. BOTH CANDIDATES AGREED TO A DEBATE BUT THEY COULD NOT AGREE ON A MUTUAL DATE SO TONIGHT WE HEAR FROM REPRESENTATIVE TOM O'HALLERAN WITH WENDY ROGERS TO APPEAR WITH US ON OCTOBER 18TH. HERE NOW IS DEMOCRATIC CONGRESSMAN TOM O'HALLERAN. GOOD TO SEE YOU AGAIN.
TOM: SAME HERE TED.
TED: THANKS FOR BEING HERE. ALRIGHT LET’S JUST A KIND OF GETTING TO KNOW YOU THING. I’LL THROW SOME THINGS OUT THAT THE OPPONENT HAS CLAIMED AGAINST YOU AND WE’LL SEE WHAT YOUR RESPONSES ARE. FIRST OFF, CD 1 IS HUGE. IT IS A MASSIVE DISTRICT. WHAT ARE THE NEEDS THERE?
TOM: OH, THERE -- DIVERSITY OF NEEDS ACROSS THE ENTIRE DISTRICT. IT'S LIKE BIGGER THAN THE STATE OF PENNSYLVANIA. IT'S 20,000 SQUARE MILES LARGER THAN SOUTH KOREA, SO WE GO FROM AGRICULTURE IN THE SOUTH TO MINING IN THE MIDDLE PART, TO FORESTRY ISSUES UP TO THE NORTH, AND THE DIVERSITY OF DIFFERENT -- WE HAVE FIVE NATIONAL FORESTS. THE GRAND CANYON AND 21 OTHER NATIONAL PARKS AND MONUMENTS. AND WE SOME OF THE MOST BEAUTIFUL LAND IN AMERICA.
TED: BUT THE BIGGEST NEED -- IF YOU HAD TO PINPOINT ONE?
TOMS: CAPS FOR FAMILIES. AND THAT GOES WITH EDUCATION AND HEALTH CARE. SO YOU CAN’T LOOK AT RURAL AMERICA AS A TOTAL AND UNDERSTAND THAT THEY -- WE HAVE A LOT LESS RECOVERY THAN THE REST OF THE COUNTRY, AND SO WE -- WE'RE TRYING TO WORK ON ISSUES LIKE INFRASTRUCTURE FOR THE TELECOMMUNICATIONS PROCESSES, BROADBAND, IT'S ALL TIED IN TO THE LONGER TERM NEEDS OF EDUCATION AND HEALTH CARE.
TED: WORKING ON THOSE THINGS, THAT'S ONE THING. WHAT ARE YOU GETTING DONE?
TOM: WELL WE PUT $2 MILLION MORE INTO BROADBAND. WE PUT A LOT MORE MONEY INTO HEALTH CARE THIS TIME AROUND. LUCKILY, ARIZONA HAS EXCESS EXPANSION, AND THAT SERVES 1.7 MILLION PEOPLE IN OUR STATE. AND SO, THAT HELPS OUT A LOT. WITHOUT THAT, OUR HOSPITALS -- WELL, A LOT OF OUR HOSPITALS WOULD BE IN BAD FINANCIAL CONDITION.
TED: AS FAR AS HEALTH CARE IS CONCERNED, ARE YOU A SINGLE-PAYER GUY, A PUBLIC OPTION GUY, AN AFFORDABLE CARE ACT GUY? WHERE DO YOU STAND?
TOM: YOU HAVE ALL THE RANGE DON’T YOU? I WOULD LIKE TO SEE US SO THAT WE MAKE SURE EVERY AMERICAN HAS INSURANCE. AND THAT CAN'T BE DONE WITHOUT PUTTING A SYSTEM TOGETHER THAT IS GOING TO MAKE THAT REAL. I DON'T CARE WHAT WE CALL IT, BUT IT HAS TO WORK. WE HAVE TO GAIN BACK THE TRUST OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE AND WE HAVE TO ALSO MAKE SURE WE EDUCATE FOLKS BEFORE HAND, AND THAT MEANS WE HAVE TO DO A LOT OF WORK ON MAKING SURE -- HOW IT'S GOING TO WORK FINANCIALLY. HOW IT'S GOING TO HELP OUR CITIZENS, AND HOW THE LONG TERM IMPLICATIONS OF THE HEALTH CARE PLAN ARE MET.
TED: FOR THE AFFORDABLE CARE ACT, WE SEE PREMIUMS INCREASE, TAX HIKE ON EMPLOYERS, THESE SORTS OF THINGS. WOULD YOU SCRAP THE AFFORDABLE CARE ACT?
TOM: WELL WE KIND OF HAVE SCRAPPED A LOT OF IT ALREADY. I SAID BEFORE, WHEN I WAS RUNNING FOR ELECTION LAST TIME, THERE ARE AREAS IN THESE SILOS -- WHETHER THEY ARE PRESCRIPTION DRUGS OR LONG-TERM CARE ISSUES AND STUFF THAT WE HAVE TO REALLY LOOK AT. PREEXISTING CONDITIONS, THOUGH, WOMEN'S HEALTH ISSUES -- THERE'S A BUNCH OF ISSUES IN THERE THAT WE HAVE TO CONTINUE INTO THE FUTURE.
TED: YOUR OPPONENT SAYS THAT WE SHOULD UNLEASH THE FREE MARKET. MAKE SENSE TO YOU?
TOM: THE FREE MARKET WAS UNLEASHED FOR YEARS AHEAD OF THIS. BACK WHEN I WAS IN THE LEGISLATURE, 2001 TO 2009, WHEN BEFORE THE AFFORDABLE HEALTHCARE ACT, WE SAW RATE INCREASES IN ARIZONA FROM 15 TO 20% EVERY YEAR. AND SO THIS IDEA THAT THERE IS ONLY ONE WAY TO DO IT, IT’S NOT. YOU TAKE A LOOK AT THE ACCESS PROGRAM HERE IN ARIZONA, IT'S A COMBINATION OF GOVERNMENT AND PRIVATE INDUSTRY. I DON'T KNOW IF THAT IS GOING TO WORK ON A LARGER SCALE, BUT IT DOES WORK FOR ARIZONA, AND WE GET GOOD PRICING. AND WE HAVE TO FIND A WAY TO MAKE IT AFFORDABLE TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE.
TED: SO THE IDEA THAT MANY REPUBLICANS ALONG WITH YOUR OPPONENT, THEY ARE BASICALLY SAYING IF YOU LET THE MARKET RULE, THE MARKET WILL TAKE CARE OF EVERYONE. YOU SAY?
TOM: I HAVEN’T SEEN IT IN MY EXPERIENCE IN MY ENTIRE LIFE I HAVEN’T SEEN WHERE THAT’S OCCURRED OTHER THAN INCREASING HEALTHCARE COSTS.
TED: ALRIGHT. YOU MENTIONED THE ECONOMY IN RURAL ARIZONA AND IN MUCH OF CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICT. WHEN THE ECONOMY AROUND THE COUNTRY AND IN THE STATE, OVERALL, IS IMPROVING--
TOM: I’M REALLY HAPPY ABOUT THAT—
TED: WHY DO YOU THINK IT’S IMPROVING?
TOM: I THINK IT'S A COMBINATION OF ISSUES. WE'RE IN THE EIGHTH YEAR OR NINTH YEAR OF EXPANSION. WHICH IS A LONG TIME ON AVERAGE. WE HAVE A BETTER WORKING ENVIRONMENT OUT THERE. THE TAXES ARE LOWER, BUT WE ALSO HAVE DONE A LOT OF THINGS TO INCENTIVIZE BUSINESS IN THE LAST NUMBER OF YEARS, AND OUR MILITARY IS SPENDING MORE MONEY. WE PUT MORE MONEY INTO SOCIAL SERVICES FOR PEOPLE THAT CAN'T GET THOSE JOBS, BUT THE PREVAILING ISSUE ALSO IS THE WAGES HAVE NOT BEEN KEEPING UP. THE JOBS ARE THERE, BUT THE WAGES ARE NOT WHERE THEY NEED TO BE FOR OUR FAMILIES.
TED: THE A TAX -- YOU MENTIONED LOWER TAXES. DID THE TRUMP TAX CUT IMPROVE THE SITUATION? WAS IT AN ACCELERATOR TO WHAT WE'RE SEEING?
TOM: I THINK IT HAD SOME BEARING ON IT. BUT IT ALSO HAD A BEARING ON OUR DEFICIT. IT WAS INITIALLY $1.5 TRILLION OVER TEN YEARS. THEN IT WENT TO $1.8 TRILLION. AND NOW IT IS GETTING CLOSER TO $2 TRILLION IN DEFICITS, AND THEN YOU ADD ON THE INTEREST IT'S ALMOST $2.4 TRILLION. THAT'S SOMETHING WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO LIVE WITH -- AND THE FIRST IDEA THERE WAS OUR EXPANDING ECONOMY WAS GOING TO PAY FOR ALL OF THAT. IT'S NOT. AND -- AND SO WE -- WE HAVE TO WATCH OUT HOW WE MOVE FORWARD ON THIS ISSUE, IN THE ENTIRE -- I SHOULDN'T SAY ENTIRE -- BUT A LARGE PORTION OF THE WORKING FAMILIES OF AMERICA DIDN'T SEE ANY TAX BREAK.
TED: YOU SAY IT IS NOT GOING TO PAY FOR IT, EXPANDING ECONOMY WILL NOT PAY FOR THE DEFICITS. REPUBLICANS IN GENERAL, YOUR OPPONENT IN PARTICULAR, THEY SAY THAT ONCE WE GET TO STRIDE HERE AS FAR AS THE ECONOMY IS CONCERNED, IT WILL PAY AND THE DEFICIT WILL GO AWAY.
TOM: WELL, THAT'S NOT WHAT THE ADMINISTRATION SAYS BECAUSE ABOUT THREE MONTHS AFTER THE TAX CUT WAS ACCOMPLISHED, THE ADMINISTRATION CAME OUT AND IDENTIFIED THAT IT WAS 1.8, NOT 1.5, AND SAID IT WAS NOT GOING TO BE PAID FOR BY ECONOMIC ACTIVITY.
TED: SO DO YOU THINK THE TRUMP TAX CUTS WERE A BAD THING.
TOM: I DON'T THINK THE TARGETED TAX CUTS IN AND OF THEMSELVES WERE BAD. I THINK THIS ONE SHOULD HAVE BEEN TARGETED MORE TO THE MIDDLE CLASS, CONSUMERS OF AMERICA, RATHER THAN THE CORPORATIONS. SO THEY COULD BUY BACK STOCK SO THEY COULD BRING MONEY BACK TO AMERICA ONE TIME AND THEN CONTINUE TO HAVE THAT MONEY UNTAXED OVER IN FOREIGN LANDS -- IT DIDN'T INCENTIVIZE US TO GET MORE BUSINESSES BACK INTO AMERICA THAT HAVE BEEN OUT SOURCED.
TED: SPEAKING OF WHICH, THE IDEA OF TARIFFS, THE ADMINISTRATION HAS BEEN USING THE TARIFFS LIBERALLY, TO COIN THE PHRASE. DO YOU LIKE THE IDEA OF TARIFFS AS A NEGOTIATING TACTIC?
TOM: I LIKE THE IDEA OF NEGOTIATION. I LIKE THE IDEA OF AMERICA BEING TREATED FAIRLY. I DIDN’T LIKE THE IDEA AND I DON’T LIKE THE IDEA THAT WE START OFF WITH TARIFFS AND POTENTIALLY START A TRADE WAR WITH ONE OF OUR LARGEST TRADING PARTNERS IN THE WORLD. I'M GLAD TO SEE THE NAFTA PROCESS WAS BEING ADDRESSED, BUT THEN WE HAVEN'T SEEN THE DETAILS YET EITHER, AND MEXICO AND CANADA ARE BEING TREATED A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENTLY, AND I'M LOOKING FORWARD TO SEEING MORE INFORMATION AS IT GOES FORWARD.
TED: THERE'S A CHANCE THAT DEMOCRATS CAN GAIN THE MAJORITY IN THE HOUSE.
TOM: UH-HUH.
TED: IF THEY GAIN -- AND EVEN IF THEY DON'T, DO YOU WANT TO SEE NANCY PELOSI REMAIN AS LEADER? YOU VOTED FOR HER LAST TIME, WHAT DO YOU THINK?
TOM: I DON'T WANT ANYBODY IN A LEADERSHIP ROLE IN GOVERNMENT, IN CONGRESS, TO GO FORWARD AND BE SPEAKER OR LEADER OR ANYTHING ELSE, WHO DOES NOT AGREE TO REFORM CONGRESS. I AM PART OF A GROUP THAT SAYS WE WILL HOLD OUR VOTES FROM ANYBODY WHO REFUSES TO REFORM CONGRESS. AND THERE’S A LOT OF US THAT ARE SAYING THAT.
TED: DO YOU THINK FOLKS IN CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICT ONE WANT TO SEE NANCY PELOSI AS SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE?
TOM: IN GENERAL, I HEAR A LOT OF COMMENTS FROM FOLKS THAT THINK THE TIME IS NOT RIGHT NOW FOR HER TO BE SPEAKER AGAIN. BUT THAT WILL BE A DETERMINED FACTOR WITHIN THE CAUCUS AND WITHIN THE CONGRESS, AND WE'LL SEE WHO’S GOING TO RUN AGAINST HER.
TED: WITH THAT SAID, DO YOU REGRET YOUR PREVIOUS SUPPORT FOR NANCY PELOSI IN LEADERSHIP?
TOM: NO, I'M NOT GOING TO REGRET MY PREVIOUS PROCESS. SHE WAS THE CANDIDATE THAT WAS BROUGHT FORWARD WITHIN OUR CONFERENCE, AND IT'S APPROPRIATE THAT WE SUPPORT THAT PERSON. THIS IS A DIFFERENT PROCESS. WE -- PEOPLE HAVE TO UNDERSTAND, OUR CONGRESS HASN'T BEEN FUNCTIONING WELL FOR A LONG TIME. EVERYBODY IN WASHINGTON LOOKING AT THIS CONGRESS AS ONE OF THE LEAST-PERFORMING CONGRESSES, AND THE LEAST TRANSPARENT TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE. AND THAT'S THE DIRECTION WE NEED TO GO IN. MAKING SURE THAT THE REPRESENTATIVES THAT REPRESENT EVERY ONE OF THESE 435 DISTRICT HAVE THE RIGHT TO HAVE THEIR VOICES AND THEIR CONSTITUENTS HEARD.
TED: YOU KNOW YOUR OPPONENT SAYS YOU ARE, QUOTE, WILDLY OUT OF STEP WITH THE RESIDENTS OF CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICT ONE. HOW DO YOU RESPOND TO THAT?
TOM: I WAS WONDERING WHERE SHE WOULD COME UP WITH THAT STATEMENT. I HAVE BEEN -- WE -- JUST MYSELF HAVE BEEN ON THE ROAD ALMOST 50,000 MILES IN 20-SOME MONTHS IN THE DISTRICT -- NOT IN WASHINGTON, NOT ANYWHERE ELSE. IN THE DISTRICT. WE HAVE BEEN IN EVERY CORNER OF THE DISTRICT, LISTENED TO EVERYBODY THAT IS OUT THERE. WORKED WITH THE CITIES AND TOWNS AND COUNTIES. I WOULD ASK HER TO JUST MENTION A FEW NAMES OF PEOPLE THAT ARE IN GOVERNMENT THAT DON'T KNOW THAT I HAVE BEEN AROUND -- I'LL KNOCK ON THEIR DOOR, BUT WE HAVE BEEN EVERYWHERE.
TED: SHE DOES MENTION A COUPLE OF NAMES, BUT ONLY IN TERMS OF FINANCING. THAT YOU ARE FUNDED BY THE TOM STEYERS OF THE WORLD, THE PEOPLE THAT FUND THE MAXINE WATERS, AND THUS, YOU ARE BEHOLDEN TO THAT LIBERAL WING OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY. AGAIN, HOW DO YOU RESPOND?
TOM: WELL, FIRST OF ALL, I'M BEHOLDEN TO THE CITIZENS OF CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICT ONE. PERIOD. AND NEXT HOW THAT RELATES TO THE NEEDS OF KEEPING AMERICA SAFE. AND THE SECOND THING, I DON'T THINK TOM STEYER HAS GIVEN ME A DIME. AND MAXINE WATERS AND I HAVE KNOWN EACH OTHER BRIEFLY IN HALLWAY DISCUSSIONS, AND THAT’S ABOUT IT.
TED: BUT THE ARGUMENT IF YOU GET MONEY FOR THAT OR IF I EASE BACK BY THOSE FOLKS ARE SUPPORTING YOU THEN YOU SOMEHOW REPRESENT THEM.
TOD: WHEN SHE BECOMES A REPRESENTATIVE, IF SHE DOES, SHE BETTER UNDERSTAND THAT YOU DON’T REPRESENT THEM YOU REPRESENT THE PEOPLE THAT YOU SERVE.
TED: IMMIGRATION. DO YOU SUPPORT A BORDER WALL?
TOD: I SUPPORT A SECURE BORDER. WE HAVE BORDER WALL UP THERE ALREADY. IF THERE’S AREAS THAT NEED TO BE REINFORCED AS FOR AS ADDITIONAL SECURITY FOR OUR BORDER THEN WE NEED TO ADDRESS THOSE ISSUES. BUT ALL IN ALL WE NEED MORE BORDER PATROL AGENTS, ESPECIALLY IF WE HAVE A WALL, WE NEED TO BE ABLE TO RESPOND TO ANY PEOPLE COMING OVER THAT WALL. WE HAVE TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF TECHNOLOGY OUT THERE AND I DON’T THINK WE HAVE A NEIGHBOR TO THE SOUTH THAT IS GOING TO BE 200 MILLION PEOPLE NOT TOO LONG DISTANCE IN THE FUTURE AND WE NEED THEM AS A TRADING PARTNER ALSO. WE NEED THEM TO HAVE A STRONG ECONOMY AND WE NEED A RELATIONSHIP JUST LIKE WE ARE TRYING TO WORK OUT WITH NAFTA TO BE ABLE TO UNDERSTAND THAT.
TED: OKAY YOU’RE OPPONENT WILL HEAR THAT AND SAY YOU’RE SOFT ON BORDER SECURITY. YOU DON’T WANT A WALL AND YOU’RE SOFT ON SECURITY.
TOM: IF ANYBODY—IF THAT’S THE ONLY ISSUE IS THE WALL AND NOTHING THEN I THINK THAT SHE IS WRONG. I THINK THAT IF WE HAVE ENOUGH BORDER PATROL AGENTS THERE, ENOUGH TECHNOLOGY, AND UNDERSTANDING THAT THERE IS TREMENDOUS AREAS ALONG THE BORDER THAT YOU JUST CAN’T GET THROUGH THAT AREA EVEN IF THERE WAS NO WALL. THE PHYSICAL ABILITY TO GET THROUGH THAT IS ALMOST IMPOSSILBE.
TED: ROE V. WADE. YOUR OPPONENT SUPPORTS OVERTURNING ROE V. WADE. HOW ABOUT YOU?
TOM: I DON’T. I BELIEVE THAT WOMEN HAVE THE CHOICE TO DO WITH THEIR BODY’S WHAT THEY WANT TO DO WITH THEIR BODY’S. AND FOR GOVERNMENT TO INJECT ITSELF INTO THAT PROCESS IS WRONG. AND THAT’S MY BOTTOM LINE.
TED: DO YOU THINK THE SUPREME COURT RIGHT NOW IS SET UP TO OVERTURN ROE V. WADE?
TOM: YOU KNOW WE’VE SEEN HISTORY OF THE SUPREME COURT TIME AND TIME AGAIN WHERE PEOPLE WOULD SAY WELL HERE IS WHERE THEY’RE GOING AND NO ONE KNOWS WHERE THEY ARE GOING. THAT’S BETWEEN NINE JUSTICES WHEN THEY CLOSE THOSE DOORS AND MAKE A DECISION AND DISCUSS THESE ISSUES.
TED: AND WHAT DID YOU MAKE THOUGH OF THE KAVANAUGH CONFIRMATION HEARINGS. I MEAN LET’S PUT YOU IN THE SENATE JUST FOR A MOMENT HERE, WHAT WOULD YOU HAVE DONE?
TOM: WELL FIRST OF ALL I DON’T HAVE THE INFORMATION THAT THE SENATORS DO. BUT I’LL TELL YOU ONE THING, THE CONDUCT DURING THE HEARING WAS UNCALLED FOR ON BOTH SIDES. THE IDEA THAT WE WILL ONLY HAVE AN INVESTIGATOR—IM A FORMER HOMICIDE INVESTIGATOR. SO THE IDEA THAT WE WILL ONLY HAVE AN INVESTIGATION WHEN NEW MATERIAL CAME OUT FOR ONE WEEK AND INTERVIEW A SELECT NUMBER OF POTENTIAL WITNESSES IS NOT KEEPING WITH A TRUE INVESTIGATION. BUT IN GENERAL, WE HAVE TO FIND A WAY TO WORK TOGETHER AND THIS BACK AND FORTH BETWEEN TWO PARTIES ON A CONTINUAL BASIS THAT’S PART OF THE REFORM I WANT TO SEE.
TED: WHAT ESPECIALLY BOTHERED YOU, YOU SAID BOTH SIDES WERE AT FAULT HERE, WHAT ESPECIALLY BOTHERED YOU FOR THE DEMOCRATS?
TOM: WELL THE DEMOCRATS I THOUGHT WENT A LITTLE TOO FAR. WE’RE SUPPOSED TO ASK PROBING QUESTIONS. I DON’T LIKE IT, I NEVER DID LIKE IT WHEN PEOPLE GOT UP THERE AND PONTIFICATED TIME AND TIME AGAIN ABOUT THEIR POSITION. THIS IS SUPPOSED TO BE ABOUT A DISCUSSION BACK AND FORTH BETWEEN YOU AND THE NOMINEE. AND THE OTHER SIDE, IF YOU’RE GOING TO BE WILLING TO SIT ON THAT PANEL THEN ASK THE QUESTIONS. DON’T HAVE SOME PROSECUTOR THAT NOBODY KNOWS ASK THOSE QUESTIONS. THAT’S WHAT YOU’RE PAID FOR, TO ASK THOSE QUESTIONS.
TED: LAST QUESTION TO YOU, WHY SHOULD VOTERS KEEP YOU AS THEIR REPRESENTATITVE IN CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICT ONE?
TOM: BECAUSE I HAVE THEM FIRST IN MIND. I CARE ABOUT THEIR FAMILIES. I CARE ABOUT THEIR ABILITY TO HAVE JOBS. I’VE WORKED HARD TO IMPROVE RURAL AMERICA AND MY RECORD BEARS THAT OUT. AND I JUST GOT DOWN SHARING A TASK FORCE ON RURAL ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT FOR THE BLUE DOGS. AND I JUST—WHAT I’VE SEEN IS SOMETHING THAT NEEDS TO BE CHANGED. WHETHER IT’S FOR THE 12 NATIVE AMERICAN TRIBES THAT ARE IN THE DISTRICT, THE SMALL TOWNS, AND THE OTHER TOWNS THAT HAVE TO COMPETE WITH LARGER MUNICIPAL AREAS. WE HAVE TO FIND A BETTER WAY.
TED: REPRESENTATIVE TOM O’HALLERAN, I’M SORRY WE COULDN’T GET A DEBATE GOING WITH YOUR OPPONENT BUT WE WILL HEAR FROM HER ON THE 18TH OF OCTOBER. WE JUST HEARD FROM YOU, THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE.
TOM: THANKS VERY MUCH TED.
TED: THANK YOU VERY MUCH. UP NEXT ON ARIZONA HORIZON, HOW POLLUTION CAN INCREASE YOUR CHANCES OF GETTING ALZHEIMER’S.
Congressional District One Representative Tom O’Halleran (D)
