Florence Copper Project

Feb. 8, 2012

Transcript:

PACKAGE: IN NORTHWEST ARIZONA JUST OFF STATE ROUTE 95, STANDS A PECULIAR MONUMENT TO THE TOWN OF OATMAN. ODDLY, THE MARKER IS 15 MILES FROM THE TOWN IT HONORS. WEST INTO THE BLACK MOUNTAINS THE MINING TOWN OF OATMAN WAS ESTABLISHED AT THE TURN OF THE CENTURY. BY THE 1930s NEARLY 2 MILLION OUNCES OF GOLD HAD BEEN EXTRACTED FROM SURROUNDING MINES. THE PRICE OF GOLD AND WORLD WAR II FORCED THE CLOSURE OF THE MINES IN THE '40s. THE TOWN WAS DELIVERED ANOTHER BLOW WHEN IN 1952, A STRETCH OF I-40 OPENED CY PHONING OFF OATMAN'S LIFE BLOOD, ROUTE 66 TRAFFIC. IT QUICKLY BECAME A GHOST TOWN. [SHOUTING] ROUTE 66 IS AGAIN ITS LIFE BLOOD. NOSTALGIA FOR THE MOTHER ROAD AND THE OLD WEST DRAW TOURISTS FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD. THEY WALK THE BOARD WALKS. HANG WITH THE LOCAL GUNFIGHTERS. THEY ARE FOLLOWED AROUND BY OATMAN'S MOST FAMOUS RESIDENTS, THE BURROS, DESCENDANTS OF THOSE SET FREE BY MINERS YEARS AGO. BEING CLOSER TO NEVADA THAN THE TOWN ITSELF, OATMAN'S MISPLACED MONUMENT IS LONG FORGOTTEN, BUT THE TOWN IS REMEMBERED DAILY.

TED SIMONS: THE FLORENCE COPPER PROJECT IS AN UNCONVENTIONAL MINING OPERATION NEAR THE TOWN OF FLORENCE. THE PROJECT'S OWNERS ARE SEEKING PERMISSION TO USE SULFURIC ACID TO DISSOLVE COPPER ABOUT 400 FEET UNDERGROUND AND PUMP IT TO THE SURFACE. LAST WEEK WE HEARD FROM CURIS RESOURCES, THE CANADIAN COMPANY PLANNING THE PROJECT ON LAND IT OWNS AND LEASES. TONIGHT WE HEAR OPPOSING VIEWS. JOINING US IS TOM SMITH, VICE MAYOR OF THE TOWN OF FLORENCE, AND JORDAN ROSE REPRESENT OF THE DEVELOPMENT COMPANY THAT WANTS TO BUILD HOMES IN THE AREA. THANKS FOR JOINING US.

JORDAN ROSE: THANK YOU FOR HAVING US.

TED SIMONS: LET'S START WITH WHY YOU ARE AGAINST THIS PROJECT.

TOM SMITH: THAT'S A LONG STORY. TO MAKE IT SHORT, FLORENCE IS THE SIXTH OLDEST TOWN IN THE STATE OF ARIZONA. IT'S BEEN DOING THIS FOR 100 YEARS HAS IT BEEN DIVIDED? YES. WE'RE DIVIDED BY THE GILA RIVER. IT DIVIDES NORTH AND SOUTH. THE COPPER COMPANY COMING IN WILL HAVE MANY THINGS THAT MIGHT BE WORSE FOR THE TOWN. FOR ONE THING THERE'S NOT GOING TO BE THE JOBS PEOPLE SAY THERE ARE. WE'RE GETTING MORE JOBS RIGHT NOW BECAUSE OF OUR RESIDENTIAL AND COMMERCIAL BUILDING OUT FOR TWO HOSPITALS. THAT ALONE IS 175 JOBS AT ONE HOSPITAL ALONE. WE HAVE IN FLORENCE ONLY LESS THAN 4% UNEMPLOYMENT, WHICH IS FANTASTIC THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY. SO DO WE NEED JOBS? WE ALWAYS NEED JOBS, BUT NOT ONES THAT MAY AFFECT OUR TOWN, WHICH WILL AFFECT THE WATER SUPPLY WHETHER IT WANTS TO BELIEVE IT OR NOT.

TED SIMONS: OKAY, WE'LL GET TO THE AFFECTING THE WATER SUPPLY IN A SECOND. WHY ARE YOU AGAINST THIS PROJECT AND THE FOLKS YOU REPRESENT AGAINST THIS PROJECT?

JORDAN ROSE: THEY ARE PROPOSING TO PUMP 15 BILLION GALLONS OF SULFURIC ACID INTO THE GROUND IN THE MIDDLE OF A MASTER PLAN, A PREMIER AWARD-WINNING MASTER PLAN COMMUNITY. IT'S BEEN FEATURED ON THE COVERS OF MAGAZINES, WON NATIONAL AWARDS FOR GREAT MASTER PLANNING, IN THE COUNTY SEAT OF THE SECOND FASTEST GROWING COUNTY IN THE COUNTRY, IN THE NATION. THIS IS ABOMINABLE. IT'S NOT JUST US. IT'S NOT JUST SOUTHWEST VALUE PARTNERS. IT'S EVERY MAJOR LAND OWNNER THE AREA. 16,000 ACRES OF OTHER LANDOWNERS JUST ADJACENT TO THE MINE ARE AGAINST IT. THESE AREN'T PEOPLE WHO ARE JUST POPPED INTO ARIZONA. THESE ARE THE PREEMINENT FAMILIES AND DEVELOPERS IN ARIZONA. AND 600 RESIDENTS. IT'S A BAD IDEA.

TED SIMONS: WE HAVE HEARD FROM THE FOLKS WHO ARE PROPONENTS OF THIS PROJECT. THEYRE SAYING THE BIG REASON THE LANDOWNERS ARE AGAINST IT IS BECAUSE IT WILL HURT THEIR PROPERTY VALUES. IT COULD HURT THEIR PROPERTY VALUES. CEO OF THE COMPANY SAYS THERE'S NO REASON FOR IT TO HURT THEIR PROPERTY VALUES. THEY CAN BUILD ALONGSIDE THE MINE WHILE THE MINE IS OPERATIONAL AFTER THE MINE COMES AND GOES.

JORDAN ROSE: THIS IS AN EXPERIMENT, CREATING FLORENCE INOT A PETRI DISH. FOR SOMETHING THAT HAS NEVER BEEN DONE IN NORTH AMERICA, AND NEVER, EVER, HAS THIS TYPE OF PROJECT CLEANED UP THE WATER SUPPLY TO PRE-MINING CONDITIONS. THIS WOULD BE A FIRST. SO IF YOU SAY WE'RE SCARED, THE LARGEST WATER PROVIDER, THE PRIVATE WATER PROVIDER IN THE STATE OF ARIZONA, IS SCARED TO DEATH THIS IS GOING TO DESTROY THE WATER THERE. IT'S A PROBLEM. IT'S NOT JUST US BUT BLOCKS AWAY FROM THIS PROJECT ARE RETIREES LIVING IN ANTHEM AND DELL WEB COMMUNITY. NEW HOME BUYERS, YOUNG FAMILIES. WE'RE JUST THERE TO SUPPORT THAT AND SUPPORT THE PLANS WE HAVE HAD FOR DECADES.

TED SIMONS: LET'S TALK ABOUT THE ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT NOW. THE COMPANY SAYS THEY ARE GOING TO USE A CLOSED LOOP SYSTEM WHICH BASICALLY MEANS THE WELLS WILL -- THE WATER WILL BE CONTAINED AT ALL TIMES. THE WELLS WOULD BE TESTED. THEY WOULD BE MONITORED. THEY ARE EVEN SUGGESTING AN ONLINE MONITORING SYSTEM SO YOU AND OTHER RESIDENTS OF FLORENCE CAN CHECK UP ON THE WELLS AS YOU SEE FIT. WHAT'S WRONG WITH THAT IDEA?

TOM SMITH: FOR ONE THING, A CLOSED LOOP -- IT'S AN OPEN LOOP. IT POURS IN, IT GOES INTO THE GROUND, COMES OUT ANOTHER PIPE A. CLOSED LOOP WOULDN'T ALLOW IT OUT IN THE FIRST PLACE. SECOND OF ALL THIS IS NOT NEAR FLORENCE. THIS IS IN THE GEOGRAPHIC CENTER OF OUR TOWN. LIKE I MENTIONED BEFORE, WOULD SCOTTSDALE ALLOW THAT? I DON'T THINK SO.

TED SIMONS: WHEN WAS THAT LAND ANNEXED?

TOM SMITH: OH -- IT WAS WHEN HARRISON MERRILL BOUGHT ALL THAT PROPERTY AND THE TOWN WENT ON THE LIMB TO PUT OUT OVER $1 MILLION WORTH OF BONDS SO THAT COULD BE DEVELOPED INTO A HOUSING AND COMMERCIAL AREA. VOTED ON BY THE TOWN OF FLORENCE, ALL THE PEOPLE. THEY VOTED TO DO THAT. TO TAKE IT AWAY FROM THE MINING DISTRICT.

JORDAN ROSE: AND 15 YEARS AGO, THIS SITE WAS USED AS A TEST PILOT, RIGHT, FOR POTENTIAL COPPER MINING PROJECT. FROM THAT TEST, WHICH WAS JUST DONE FOR 100 DAYS WITH 13 WELL SITES, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT 20 YEARS OF PROPOSED ACID, RISKY ACID PROCESS, FOR 20 YEARS OVER APPROXIMATELY 2,000 WELL SITES. FROM JUST THOSE 13 WE'RE STILL SEEING SEEPMENT. IN FACT, ON JANUARY 23RD THEY REPORTED SULFATE LEVELS, THOSE ARE DANGEROUS THINGS, THAT EXCEEDED STANDARDS BY 12 TIMES. THERE'S RADIOACTIVE MATERIAL IN THE GROUND. THE EPA HAS STATED THAT.

TED SIMONS: WE ASKED THE CEO ABOUT THE RADIO CHEMICALS. HE SAID HE HAS NEVER HEARD OF IT. THAT'S NOT TRUE. HE SAYS BASICALLY IT'S NOT TRUE. HE ALSO SAYS THAT THE FORMER OWNERS HAVE DONE TESTS THERE ON AND OFF FOR 14 YEARS AND NEVER ONCE HAVE THERE BEEN WATER IMPAIRMENT ISSUES.

JORDAN ROSE: THAT'S JUST ABSOLUTELY FALSE. IN FACT BHP, THE FORMER OWNERS, HAVE REPORTED AND ADMITTED TO 26 EXCEEDENSES. THERE WAS ONE THE WEEK BEFORE HE CAME ON YOUR PROGRAM AND STATED THAT. HIS COMPANY WROTE A LETTER TO THE EPA TALKING ABOUT THE 12 TIMES THE LEVEL OF SULFATES. THIS IS THE EPA REPORT. IT SAYS HERE THAT THERE ARE RADIOACTIVE CHEMICALS IN THE GROUND AND THEY ARE LEACHABLE. EVEN IN 2005 THERE WERE REPORTS TO ADEQ THAT THOSE CHEMICALS WERE LEACHING. IT'S A PROBLEM. THAT'S JUST NOT TRUE.

TED SIMONS: HE SAYS GRANTED ALL THE MAJOR ADQ AND EPA, ENVIRONMENTAL OPERATING PERMITS HAVE BEEN GRANTED. THERE TWO-THIRDS THROUGH THE PERMITTING PROCESS. IT IS JUST BASICALLY ANSWERING QUESTIONS FROM THE DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL QUALITY. THE CITY COMMISSION HAD THIRD PARTY REVIEW ON THIS. JUDGING FROM WHAT I SAW THE REVIEW IN GENERAL SAYS THAT MINING OPERATION IS CONSISTENT WITH YOUR GENERAL PLAN.

JORDAN ROSE: THEY DIDN'T.

TED SIMONS: THEY DID NOT SAY THAT?

TOM SMITH: OUR GENERAL PLAN WHICH WAS VOTED ON BY THE PEOPLE OF FLORENCE --

JORDAN ROSE: BY 71% APPROVAL.

TOM SMITH: HAS NOTHING IN THERE ABOUT MINING ANY MORE.

TED SIMONS: BUT I THINK WHAT THE THIRD PARTY REVIEW AGAIN IS SAYING IS THAT IT WOULD BE CONSISTENT WITH THE GENERAL PLAN.

JORDAN ROSE: IT DID NOT SAY THAT. IN FACT IF YOU LOOK AT THAT REPORT THAT WAS DONE FOR THE TOWN OF FLORENCE, IT'S RIDDLED WITH QUESTIONS AND PROBLEMS THAT THE CUREIS NEEDS TO ANSWER AND RESPOND TO. THE EPA REVOKED THEIR PERMIT IN 2010. IT'S BEEN REVOKED. ADEQ, THEY ARE RESUBMITTING EVERYTHING. IT'S JUST NOT THE CASE.

TED SIMONS: DID THE THIRD PARTY REVIEW NOT SAY THE GROUNDWATER FLOWS WOULD POSE NO SUBSTANTIVE PROBLEMS, NO IMPACT ON THE SAFETY OF THE CITY'S DRINKING WATER, NO IMPACT IF THE CITY UPDATES OR MODERNIZES.

JORDAN ROSE: I THINK THAT WOULD BE VERY MUCH TAKEN OUT OF CONTEXT. IF YOU LOOK AT THE CONTEXT OF THAT REPORT AND THAT THIRD PARTY REVIEW MAY IN FACT NEED TO CLARIFY THAT BECAUSE THEY ABSOLUTELY DID NOT SAY THIS WAS IN THE BEST INTERESTS OF FLORENCE. THE COUNCIL TOOK THE THIRD PARTY REVIEW, WHICH WAS DONE FOR THEM, IT'S THEIR CONSULTANT, AND DETERMINED UNANIMOUSLY AND TWICE NOW IN THE LAST EIGHT MONTHS VOTED TO DENY THE PROJECT.

TED SIMONS: STATE LAND DEPARTMENT SAYS THEY FOUND NO SUBSTANTIVE ENVIRONMENTAL THREAT ON THIS, NOT ONLY THAT BUT THE LAND DEPARTMENT SAYS THAT THIS MAY WELL BRING IN MORE MONEY TO THE STATE THAN ANY PARCEL OF LAND THE STATE LAND DEPARTMENT HAS DEALT WITH IN THE PAST.

TOM SMITH: DID THE LAND DEPARTMENT STATE ANYTHING ABOUT THE STATE OF ARIZONA TAX BENEFIT TO COPPER COMPANIES WHICH WOULD DEDUCT A LOT FROM THAT?

TED SIMONS: IT WOULD DEDUCT A LOT. THAT'S A WHOLE DIFFERENT TOPIC. BUT THEY ARE SAYING IT WOULD BRING IN MAYBE $100 MILLION IN ROYALTIES.

JORDAN ROSE: BUT THIS PARTICULAR PROPERTY, THIS 160 ACRES, THE BENEFICIARY OF THIS PROPERTY IS NOT THE SCHOOLS. IT'S NOT THE TAXPAYERS IN ARIZONA. YOU KNOW WHAT IT IS? IT'S THE GOVERNMENT SUBSIDIZED RETIREMENT HOME IN PRESCOTT AND THE PUBLIC PRISON SYSTEM. THIS IS NOT THE SCHOOLS. THIS IS NOT ANYTHING LIKE THAT. IN FACT DOWNSTREAM OF WHERE THE POLLUTION WOULD FLOW IS ABOUT 12,000 ACRES OF STATE LAND, MOST OF WHICH IS BENEFITING THE SCHOOLS. THAT WILL ALL BE DIMINISHED IN VALUE. I THINK THE STATE LAND DEPARTMENT AS THEY GO THROUGH THEIR PROCESS, THEY HAVEN'T STATED WHETHER THEY ARE FOR OR AGAINST, THEY'RE IN THE EXPLORATION PHASE. WE WOULD VERY MUCH HOPE THEY WOULD RECOGNIZE LOCAL CONTROL AND PRIVATE PROPERTY RIGHTS AS WE HAVE IN THE STATE FOREVER.

TED SIMONS: WELL WE COULD SAY IF THEY HAVEN'T MADE A DECISION YET THEY SEEM TO BE SUPPORTIVE AND VERY MUCH SO. THE QUOTES ON THIS ARE NOT VERY CRITICAL, THE QUOTES ARE STRONGLY IN SUPPORT.

JORDAN ROSE: IN FACT, TED, IF YOU READ THE LETTERS FROM STATE LAND, THEY ALWAYS SAY THEY ARE STILL LOOKING INTO THE PROJECT AND WILL MAKE A DETERMINATION. OUR ENVIRONMENTAL -- LET'S LOOK AT THIS. THINK ABOUT IT. IF WE WERE TALKING ABOUT -- THIS IS ALMOST RIDICULOUS. IF WE WERE TALKING ABOUT DESERT RIDGE, PREEMINENT MASTER PLAN COMMUNITY IN THE CITY OF PHOENIX, WHERE STATE LAND HAS SOME PARCELS. IF FOR SOME REASON THEY DECIDED TO MINE COPPER IN THE MIDDLE OF DESERT RIDGE, WHICH IS EXACTLY ANALOGOUS TO THIS SITUATION, WE WOULDN'T BE HAVING THIS CONVERSATION.

TED SIMONS: ALTHOUGH WE COULD SAFELY SAY THIS AREA OF FLORENCE AND HIGHWAY IS NOT -- THE PLANS ARE FOR IT TO BE SIMILAR TO DESERT RIDGE BUT IT'S NOT QUITE THERE YET. WITH THAT IN MIND, LETS TALK ABOUT HAOUSING. YOU MENTIONED AT THE START OF THE INTERVIEW HOUSING WOULD BE PREFERABLE TO THIS MINING OPERATION. FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND THIS MINING OPERATION IS NOT INVASIVE, NOT OPEN PIT, YOU WON'T HAVE THE NOISE, THE EMISSIONS, THE BIG TRUCKS, AND THOSE SORT OF THINGS, A. AND B, IN A HOUSING MARKET THAT IS SO DEPRESSED PROPONENTS OF THE MINES SAY THE BETTER IDEA IS TO GO AHEAD AND REAP THE BENEFITS OF THE MINE, HOUSING MARKET RETURNS, HALFWAY THROUGH THE PROJECT, END OF THE PROJECT, YOU HAVE YOUR HOUSING PROJECT ON LAND THAT IS BARELY SCARRED.

TOM SMITH: LET ME ANSWER THAT ONE. FIRST YOU HAVE TO REALIZE THERE'S NO SECOND LIFE TO THIS PROPERTY. WHEN THE MINE IS FINISHED, IT WILL BE RIDDLED WITH WELLS, CAPPED WELLS. SECONDLY, THERE'S GOING TO BE HUGE HOLDING PONDS THAT ARE A CITY BLOCK BIG. 40 FEET HIGH.

JORDAN ROSE: 96 ACRES OF THEM.

TOM SMITH: THEY WILL BE COVERED OVER WITH ALL THESE RESIDUES FROM THE MINE WHICH ARE GOING TO BE RADIOACTIVE, IT'S ALREADY BEEN PROVEN, AND MANY OTHERS, BENZENE, ANOTHER ONE. THERES A LOT IN THERE. THEY WILL BE IN THAT POND DRYING OUT. THEY WILL BE COVERED OVER, BURIED AND LEFT THERE. ARE YOU GOING TO PUT A KIDS' PLAYGROUND ON TOP OF THAT?

TED SIMONS: THEY'RE SAYING THAT BALL FIELDS, SOCCER FIELDS, AGRICULTURE, IT COULD ALL GO THERE.

JORDAN ROSE: CRAZY. IT'S CRAZY.

TOM SMITH: I WOULDN'T WANT MY KIDS PLAYING ON IT.

TED SIMONS: SO BASICALLY IF YOU CAP THE MINES AND PUT CEMENT DOWN THEM, COVER THEM WITH VEGETATION, YOU'RE SAYING THAT CAN'T BE DONE?

TOM SMITH: HOW CAN YOU PUT HOMES OR FOUNDATIONS ON TOP OF WELLS THAT ARE CAPPED WITH CONCRETE?

TED SIMONS: HOW ABOUT ADJACENT TO THEM?

TOM SMITH: IT COVERS THE WHOLE PIECE IF WE LET THEM DO IT.

JORDAN ROSE: IT'S JUST A FARCE. THEY ARE GOING TO ROLL UP THE TOXIC CHEMICAL HOLDING PONDS AND LEAVE THEM THERE AND BURY THEM. I'M NOT HAVING MY KIDS PLAY ON THAT. THAT'S CRAZY.

TED SIMONS: YOU HAD A CITIZEN SURVEY THAT SHOWED 36% OF THOSE SURVEYED IN THE TOWN OF FLORENCE THOUGHT THIS WAS A GOOD IDEA. 32, CLOSE, 32% THOUGHT IT WASN'T A GOOD IDEA. 28 WERE UNDECIDED. 36. IN THIS CITIZEN SURVEY MOST LIKED THE IDEA.

TOM SMITH: THERE ARE MANY THINGS WRONG. IT WAS A TOWN SURVEY, I GRANT THAT, BUT THERE ARE MANY THINGS WRONG WITH THAT. IT WAS LOOT CLOSER THAN YOU STATED ON THE OTHER TWO. THE SECOND THING IS THERE WAS 22% UNDECIDED. IF YOU LOOK AT IT NOW, GO THERE TODAY, WHICH I DO EVERY DAY, WALK UP AND DOWN MAIN STREET, ALL THE EMAILS I HAVE RECEIVED FROM THE PEOPLE OF FLORENCE, ALL THE PEOPLE THAT CALL AND STOP AND TALK TO ME, MY PHONE NUMBER IS IN THE BOOK, AT LEAST 90% AGAINST IT.

JORDAN ROSE: AND IN FACT, IN ALL OF THE PUBLIC HEARINGS WE HAVE HAD BETWEEN THREE TIMES AND SIX TIMES AS MANY PEOPLE CAME OUT IN OPPOSITION, RESIDENTS OF FLORENCE, TO SUPPORT THE PROJECT. COUNCILWOMAN WOOLRIDGE ON THE DAIS SAID I WISH TO ADMONISH THE COPPER COMPANY, STOP USING THAT CITIZEN SURVEY. IT WAS AN UNSCIENTIFIC MAILING TO 1,000 PEOPLE THAT 400 PEOPLE RESPONDED TO BEFORE ANYONE WAS EVEN EDUCATED ABOUT THE PROJECT. IT'S OVERWHELMINGLY AGAINST IT.

TED SIMONS: THE IDEA THAT A HOUSING DEVELOPMENT ON BARE LAND IN FLORENCE IS A BETTER IDEA THAN IN SITU MINING WHICH THE COMPANY SAYS CAN BE CAPPED, COVERED AND PUT BACK INTO AT LEAST APPEARANCES OF NATURAL CONDITIONS, SOME WOULD SAY HOUSING DEVELOPMENT IS BETTER FOR THAT LAND THAN LEAVING IT TO NATURE AND USING SOMETHING LATER ON?

TOM SMITH: IN THE LONG RUN, YES. THAT'S HOUSING AND COMMERCIAL. THAT CAN GO A LONG WAY OVER A PERIOD OF A LOT OF YEARS ONCE THE ECONOMY STARTS PICKING UP TO PRODUCE THE TOWN OF FLORENCE A LOT MORE TAX MONIES THAN THIS MINE WILL EVER GIVE.

TED SIMONS: FOR THOSE WHO SAY FOR EVERY DOLLAR THAT YOU SPEND ON HOUSING THAT YOU INVEST YOU HAVE TO SPEND $1.25 IN SERVICES YOU SAY --

TOM SMITH: I SAY THE COMMERCIAL WILL TAKE CARE OF THAT.

JORDAN ROSE: WE HAVE THE PREEMINENT ECONOMIST IN THE STATE COME OUT AND SAY IN A PUBLIC REPORT THIS MASTER PLAN COMMUNITY WILL HAVE MUCH MORE BENEFIT TO THE STATE AND THE PEOPLE THAN THIS COPPER ACID RISKY PROJECT.

TED SIMONS: OKAY WE HAVE TO STOP THERE. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US. WE APPRECIATE IT. THAT IS IT FOR NOW. I'M TED SIMONS. THANK YOU FOR JOINING US. YOU HAVE A GREAT EVENING.