Trump and Immigration

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President-elect Donald Trump made immigration a top platform issues during his campaign, promising to build a wall between the US and Mexico. Arizona State University law professor Evelyn Cruz and immigration attorney Elizabeth Chatham will discuss Trump’s immigration plans and how they will impact illegal immigrants.

TED SIMONS: PRESIDENT-ELECT DONALD TRUMP MADE IMMIGRATION A TOP PLATFORM ISSUE DURING HIS CAMPAIGN. BUT WHAT WILL A TRUMP PRESIDENCY MEAN TO IMMIGRANTS AND IMMIGRATION POLICY. JOINING US NOW IS ASU SANDRA DAY O'CONNOR COLLEGE OF LAW PROFESSOR EVELYN CRUZ AND IMMIGRATION ATTORNEY ELIZABETH CHATHAM OF OSBORN MALEDON.

TED SIMONS: GOOD TO HAVE YOU BOTH HERE. GOOD TO SEE YOU BOTH AGAIN. IMPACT OF A TRUMP PRESIDENCY ON IMMIGRATION?

EVELYN CRUZ: I HAVE BEEN DOING THIS 25 YEARS. I HAVE SEEP REPUBLICAN AND DEMOCRATIC ADMINISTRATIONS. THIS IS A DIFFERENT ADMINISTRATION. THEREFORE, WE'LL SEE ABOUT INTERESTING TAKE BECAUSE HE'S TRYING TO APPLY BUSINESS INTERESTS AND CONCEPTS IN A GOVERNMENTAL SETTING WHERE WE HAVE SOME INCONVENIENCES SUCH AS THE CONSTITUTION, PROCEDURES AND OTHER REGULATIONS AS TO HOW MUCH MONEY YOU CAN SPEND ON THINGS. MY SUSPICION IS THAT WE'LL SEE A LOT OF LITIGATION. WE'LL SEE A LOT OF DISCUSSION IN CONGRESS ABOUT BUDGETS. BECAUSE WE HAVEN'T HAD A BUDGET. WE HAVE BEEN RENEWING BUDGETS. THE APPROPRIATION'S BILL WILL DICTATE TO SOME EXTENT WHAT HE CAN DO. WHAT HE HAS NOW CAN'T HANDLE THE AMOUNT OF INDIVIDUALS HE WANTS TO PROCESS. THE COURTS ARE BACKLOGGED OVER THREE YEARS. THE IMMIGRATION OFFICERS HAVE 2,000 CASES PER PERSON. IT'S NOT PHYSICALLY POSSIBLE.

TED SIMONS: WHAT ARE YOU HEARING FORM FOLKS OUT THERE? HOW MUCH FEAR? HOW MUCH CONFUSION.

ELIZABETH CHATHAM: I THINK THERE IS A LOT OF CONFUSION. I'M TELLING CLIENTS, PREPARE FOR THE WORST, HOPE FOR THE BEST. THE REASON I SAY THAT IS, THE PERSON THAT WAS CAMPAIGNING AND EXPRESSING WHAT THEY WANTED TO SEE FOR THE FUTURE OF IMMIGRATION IS NATIVIST AND RESTRICTIONIST. IT'S ABOUT SECURING THE BORDER AND MAKING A WALL AND MAKING SURE THAT CERTAIN ETHNIC GROUPS ARE ACCOUNTED FOR AND WE KNOW THEIR WHEREABOUTS ALL THE TIMES. IS THAT REALISTIC? IS THAT SOMETHING THAT WAS CONSIDERED DRACONIAN? PROBABLY BY MANY INDIVIDUAL, AT LEAST 50% OF THE COUNTRY. IN TERMS OF WHAT HE CAMPAIGNED ON AND WHAT THE POLICIES ARE AND WHAT CAN BE IMPLEMENTED AND WHAT CAN BE GOVERNED MIGHT BE VERY DIFFERENT.

TED SIMONS: PLANS TO RESEND DACA, WHAT HAPPENS TO DREAMER? WHAT ARE YOU HEARING FROM DREAMERS? IF HE WORKED TO RESCIND THE PROGRAM, WHAT HAPPENS TO THE PEOPLE?

ELIZABETH CHATHAM: IN MY OPINION, THAT'S THE SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT ISSUE REGARDING IMMIGRATION RIGHT NOW. IT'S SO UNKNOWN. HE HAS THE RIGHT. HE HAS THE AUTHORITY. IT'S WITHIN HIS PURVIEW TO DECIDE WHAT HE WANTS TO DO AS PRESIDENT REGARDING IT. IT'S SOMETHING THAT IS A BIG QUESTION MARK. HE STATED HE WOULD RESCIND THOSE EXECUTIVE ACTIONS BY PRESIDENT OBAMA. IN TERMS OF THE IMPACT OF RESCINDING DACA, THAT MIGHT BE PROCEDURAL MORE CHALLENGING. PEOPLE RENEWING ARE ENCOURAGED TO CONTINUE TO DO THAT. THEY HAVE DISCLOSED WHERE THEY ARE, WHAT THEIR STATUS IS AND WHERE THEY ARE ELIGIBLE. PEOPLE WHO ARE ELIGIBLE FOR RENEWING, IT'S A QUESTION TO DECIDE IT MAKES SENSE FOR THEM TO DO.

TED SIMONS: DID THE IMPACT ON MIXED FAMILIES OUT THERE? TALK TO US ABOUT THAT.

EVELYN CRUZ: IT'S A MIXTURE OF INDIVIDUALS IN A HOUSEHOLD. IT IMPACTED THE ENTIRE FAMILY. IF YOU HAVE INDIVIDUALS BORN IN THE UNITED STATES HAD THEIR WHOLE LIVES HERE BUT ARE IN THE PROCESS OF GROWING UP. THEY NEED THEIR PARENTS. THEIR PARENTS MIGHT BE DEPORTED. THAT CREATES A DANGER THAT YOU HAVE DISILLUSIONED YOUTH THAT MIGHT NOT GO TO HIGH SCHOOL, MIGHT NOT GRADUATE. WE CELEBRATED NOT LONG AGO THAT WE CELEBRATED THAT WE HAVE THE LARGEST GROUP OF GRADUATES OF HIGH SCHOOL. PART OF IT WAS BECAUSE DACA GAVE INDIVIDUALS THAT DESIRE THAT HEY SOMETHING WILL HAPPEN. ONE OUT OF FOUR CHILDREN IS IN A MIXED FAMILY.

TED SIMONS: YEAH. 60 MINUTES INTERVIEW DONALD TRUMP SAYS HE PLANS TO DEPORT OR INCARCERATING 2 TO 3,000,000 CRIMINALS. CAN HE DO IT?

EVELYN CRUZ: THE FRAME UP OF 3,000,000 CRIMINALS, SHOWS THAT OUT OF 11,000,000, 3,000,000 ARE CRIMINALS. THAT'S IN QUESTION. ICE PUTS IT AT 1.8 MILLION PEOPLE THEY WOULD BE TARGETING. THAT INCLUDES NOT JUST THE INDIVIDUALS THAT HAVE COMITTED CRIMES BUT ALSO IMMIGRATION VIOLATIONS THEREFORTHEY HAVE A WANTER OUT FOR THEIR ARREST. THOSE ARE THE INDIVIDUALS. IF HE WANTS TO MEET HIS NUMBERS AND DEPORT 3,000,000 PEOPLE, HE WILL HAVE TO INCLUDE IN THAT NUMBER THOSE THAT ARE HERE ILLEGALLY.

TED SIMONS: HOW DOES DEPORTING THOSE THAT ARE CRIMINALS INCARCERATING THOSE THAT HAPPEN TO BE CRIMINALS TARGET POLICY?

ELIZABETH CHATHAM: IT DOESN'T. I THINK THAT THE TARGETED GROUP BY THIS ADMINISTRATION, IT WAS ALL ABOUT THE CRIMINALS, THE GANGS, THE PEOPLE AFFECTING PUBLIC SAFETY. THAT'S WHAT'S SO INTERESTING. WHAT HE CAMPAIGNED ON WAS A BIG BEAUTIFUL TRUMP WALL THAT'S CONCRETE. NOW WE ARE SEEING HIM MAKE STATEMENTS LIKE IT MIGHT BE A FENCE, AN ALUMINUM FENCE OR DOWN THE ROAD MORE OF AN IDEA OF A WALL MORE THAN A PHYSICAL WALL. IF YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT EFFECTIVE IMMIGRATION POLICY, IF HE SURROUNDS HIMSELF WITH VARIOUS INTERESTS AND GROUPS INVESTED IN IMMIGRATION, BUSINESSES, FAMILIES, FAITH-BASED COMMUNITIES, HE'S GOING TO LEARN THAT THE BEST THING FOR THE COUNTRY IS COMPREHENSIVE IMMIGRATION REFORM.

TED SIMONS: ONE OF HIS TOP ADVOSORS IS CHRIS COBAK AUTHOR OF SB1070 HERE FORM ARIZONA EVEN THOUGH HES NOT FROM ARIZONA, HE'S QUOTED AS SAYING NO FREE PASS IF YOU ARE HEAR ILLEGALLY.

EVELYN CRUZ: RIGHT, BUT NO STATE PASS BUT YOU HAVE TO HAVE THE PROCEDURES. LAST YEAR AND THE YEAR BEFORE UNDER THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION, THEY DEPORTED 70,000 INDIVIDUALS WITH CRIMINAL RECORDS. THAT'S BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO PROVIDE A COURT HEARING. YOU CAN'T DEPORT SOMEONE UNTIL THEY FINISH THEIR SENTENCE IN JAIL. THERE ARE 185,000 OF THOSE. THOSE PROCEDURES HAVE TO BE THERE. THERE ARE NO SHORTCUTS. YOU HAVE TO PROVIDE THEM OR YOU END UP WITH OPERATION WET BACK FROM THE '50S. YOU CAN'T DO THAT.

ELIZABETH CHATHAM: I THINK ONE THING THAT'S INTERESTING ABOUT IMMIGRATION CHANGES IN THE FUTURE ARE, THERE ARE PEOPLE YOU NEED TO ADDRESS THAT ARE IN THIS COUNTRY ALREADY. THEN THERE ARE PEOPLE OUTSIDE OF THE UNITED STATES THAT WANT TO COME IN. THAT'S A DIFFERENT TYPE OF ANALYSIS AND POLICY. THERE HAS BEEN DISCUSSION ABOUT BOTH WITH THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION AND PRESIDENT ELECT ADMINISTRATION ABOUT INCREASING SCREENINGS AND MAKING SURE IN A VARIETY OF WAYS THAT WE ARE KEEPING PEOPLE OUT, I GUESS IS THE WAY THAT'S EASIEST TO EXPLAIN. THAT ALSO CONCERN ME. WE WANT TO ENCOURAGE REUNIFICATION OF FAMILIES. WE WANT TO GET THE TOP TALENT IN THE WORLD HERE IN OUR COUNTY. IF WE ARE GOING TO HAVE RESTRICTIONS AND INCREASE ENHANCED SCREENINGS, I THINK WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO LOOK AT A BALANCE. WHO ARE WE LETTING IN? WHAT IS THE PROCEDURE? IS IT APPROPRIATE? ALSO LOOKING AT THE PEOPLE ALREADY IN THE UNITED STATES.

TED SIMONS: LAST QUESTION REFERS TO THIS A BIT HERE. HE SAYS HE WANTS PIECEMEAL REFORM AS OPPOSED TO COMPREHENSIVE REFORM. REPUBLICANS IN GENERAL WANT PIECEMEAL REFORM AS OPPOSED TO COMPREHENSIVE, THOUGHTS?

EVELYN CRUZ: WE TRIED BOTH, WE DISCUSSED DREAMERS ON OBTAINING STATUS. IT DIDN'T GO ANYWHERE WITH CONGRESS. THEY WANT TO SECURE BORDERS. HOW YOU SECURE BORDERS HAS BECOME NO ONE GETS IN THROUGH THE WALL. IT'S HARD TO DO THE IMPOSSIBLE.

TED SIMONS: THE IDEA OF PIECEMEAL OPPOSED TO COMPREHENSIVE. IS IT BETTER THAN NOTHING?

ELIZABETH CHATHAM: I THINK WITH COMPREHENSIVE, YOU ARE ADDRESSING OVERALL APPROACH TO IMMIGRATION. WHEN YOU DO PIECEMEAL, YOU ARE TRYING TO ADDRESS ONE SMALL TINY POPULATION. I THINK A GREAT EXAMPLE IS DACA. IN 2012 THERE WAS DISCUSSION THAT 2,000,000 OUT OF 11 MILLION WOULD GET THE BENEFIT. IN REALITY, IT'S 700,000 IN FIVE YEARS THAT WERE APPROVED. WHEN YOU THINK PIECEMEAL AND THE AMOUNT OF PEOPLE IMPACTED, IT'S FAR TOO SMALL FROM WHAT WE NEED.

TED SIMONS: WE HAVE TO STOP YOU RIGHT THERE. GOOD DISCUSSION. THANK YOU BOTH. THAT'S IT FOR NOW. I'M TED SIMONS. THANK YOU FOR JOINING US. YOU HAVE A GREAT EVENING.

Elizabeth Chatham: immigration attorney; Evelyn Cruz: Arizona State University law professor

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