Journalists’ Roundtable: Teacher strike, Rep. Isela Blanc arrest, taxing streaming services

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In this week’s Journalists’ Roundtable, guests will discuss the possibility of a teacher strike in the state, the withholding of driver’s licenses from Dreams, the arrest of Rep. Isela Blanc and the taxing of streaming services.

Teacher Strike?

Arizona teachers quickly rallied together after inspired by the educators in West Virginia received a five percent pay increase due to their efforts. It began with a Facebook page that ended up growing in the thousands. An action on Wednesday was created called #RedForEd, where teachers and those who supported them wore red as a symbol of why the state needs to invest in teacher pay.

“They [the legislature] are ignoring the fact that in Arizona pay for teachers sucks to put it mildly,” Howard Fischer from Capitol Media Services says. “They are ignoring the fact that out of 50,000 teaching positions, about 10 percent of those are unfilled. Either the classrooms are being combined with other classrooms or they’re being filled by long term permanent substitutes who may only have a high school diploma… What does it take to get your attention?”

There is more of a challenge for an organized teacher strike in a state as red as Arizona. Many of the teacher unions have democratic values. While teach pay is an issue all can rally behind, Mike Sunnucks from the Phoenix Business Journal says partisanship is still bound to get in the way.

Related: #RedForEd: Arizona teachers may go on strike for a better salary

Fischer points out the argument made by those who aren’t in a rush to increase the pay of teachers. Some of them say that academic performance shouldn’t have a dollar value. While it’s a fair argument, Fischer says the converse of that statement can be just as true.

As for the likelihood of Arizona seeing a strike, the odds are a little low. That’s not to say that the teachers and unions are giving up.

“We may see that continued public pressure, that continued conversation, and you may get a win because Arizona could say we did this and we didn’t need to strike,” Dianna Náñez from the Arizona Republic says.

Brnovich vs. Trump

Attorney General Mark Brnovich argues that the state’s decision to not give DACA recipients driver’s licenses trumps a federal decision to overturn that. The Trump administration had asked the U.S. Supreme Court to reject Arizona’s request to deny the licenses.

“He’s taken a strong position against DACA and illegal immigrants not only in terms of this case but the case he’s pursuing against Maricopa community colleges and the case against the board of regents for the tuition of dreamers,” Fischer says. “He’s playing populist on this and playing toward some of the anti-DACA, anti-immigrant feelings.”

Lawmaker Arrested in D.C. Demonstration

Rep. Isela Blanc, D-Tempe, was arrested in D.C. during a protest for undocumented immigrants and a call for Congress to pass a comprehensive immigration reform. She traveled to D.C. with grassroots organization Living United for Change in Arizona (LUCHA).

“She wanted to give a message because she herself had had undocumented status. She had not been in the country legally,” Náñez says. “She says she feels morally obligated to join these young people and advocate for them.”

Blanc represents a heavily Latino and democratic district in Arizona. Physically joining these sorts of civil rights movement efforts is what her district wants to see. They don’t want to choose a representative who will stand on the sidelines after they had promised to fight for them, and Blanc is displaying that they chose someone they can be proud of.

Taxing of Streaming Services

The line has blurred of what should or should not be exempt from sales tax regarding purchases made online. Arizona Horizon had guests from both sides of the argument this week.

Related: Experts discuss what online purchases should be exempt from sales tax

Fischer describes how when he originally wanted a new piece of software he would go to the store and purchase it which included a sales tax. Then it evolved to being able to buy a download of the software online. Today, we’re at a point where it exists somewhere in the cloud. The question that many are asking now is what is taxable?

Sunnucks says it’s a difficult problem to work around because of all the gray area. As Arizona is trying to make the area more appealing to technology businesses, he says it won’t look good if we start taxing items that can be streamed.

TED SIMONS: GOOD EVENING AND WELCOME TO ARIZONA HORIZON'S JOURNALISTS' ROUNDTABLE. I'M TED SIMONS. JOINING US TONIGHT, DIANNA NANEZ OF THE ARIZONA REPUBLIC, HOWARD FISCHER OF CAPITOL MEDIA SERVICES, AND MIKE SUNNUCKS OF THE PHOENIX BUSINESS JOURNAL. A STRIKE BY TEACHERS IN WEST VIRGINIA CAUGHT THE ATTENTION OF ARIZONA EDUCATORS THIS WEEK, RESULTING IN A DAY OF PROTEST AND TALK OF A POSSIBLE LABOR ACTION HERE. ACCENT ON THAT WORD POSSIBLE. WHAT'S GOING ON WITH ALL OF THIS?

DIANA NANEZ: TEACHERS SAY THEY RALLIED IN A LAST-MINUTE PUSH THIS LAST WEEKEND, STARTED UP A FACEBOOK PAGE AND WERE SURPRISED, IN THEIR WORDS, TO SEE IT GROW BY THE THOUSANDS. IT WAS A CLOSED GROUP. THEY ORGANIZED FOR A WEDNESDAY ACTION ‘RED FOR ED.’ THEY WANTED TEACHERS AND ANYONE THAT SUPPORTED THEM, PARENTS, STUDENTS -- TO WEAR RED, AND WE SAW A LARGE CAMPAIGN ACROSS SOCIAL MEDIA WITH MESSAGES SAYING, HERE'S WHY WE NEED TO INVEST IN TEACHER PAY, TEACHER'S SCHOOL.

TED SIMONS: THE REASON BEING, THEY ARE SAYING STATE LAWMAKERS ARE IGNORING THE SITUATION, IGNORING WHAT THEY ARE SAYING.

HOWARD FISCHER: THEY ARE IGNORING THAT PAY IN ARIZONA FOR TEACHERS SUCKS, TO PUT IT MILDLY. THEY ARE IGNORING THE FACT THAT OUT OF 50,000 TEACHING POSITIONS, 10% OF THOSE ARE UNFILLED. THE CLASSROOMS ARE BEING COMBINED BY OTHER CLASSROOMS, LONG-TERM SUBSTITUTES THAT HAVE TO HAVE A HIGH SCHOOL DIPLOMA, AND YOU CAN'T ATTRACT TEACHERS. THEN YOU GET TO OTHER ISSUES LIKE SCHOOL SUPPLIES, CAPITAL, AND THEY ARE SAYING WHAT DOES IT TAKE TO GET YOUR ATTENTION? THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED IN WEST VIRGINIA, TEACHERS WENT OUT AND GOT A FIVE PERCENT RAISE. WHAT DOUG DUCEY OFFERED LAST YEAR WAS 4/10TH OF A CENT WE GOT IT UP TO A WHOLE PENNY?

TED SIMONS: YEAH NOT QUITE FIVE PERCENT, IS THIS SERIOUS TALK HERE?

MIKE SUNNUCKS: ONE THING IS THE TEACHER UNIONS, FOLKS THAT REPRESENT TEACHERS ARE DEMOCRATS. THEY ALIGN WITH DEMOCRATS, AND LAST TIME WE CHECKED DOWN AT THE CAPITAL THERE ARE A LOT OF REPUBLICANS.SO WHEN THE GO DOWN THERE AND TALK ABOUT THESE THINGS EVEN WHEN THEY HAVE BUSINESS ALLIES AND A LOT OF BUSINESS FOLKS ARE ONBOARD WITH THIS, ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT WISE GETTING COMPANIES TO COME HERE. GETTING SKILLS WORKER TO COME WHERE WHEN THEY LOOK AT WHAT TEACHERS GET PAID HERE, WHAT WE SPEND IN OUR CLASSROOMS.BUT WHEN THEY GO DOWN THERE TO DEAL WITH THE CONSERVATIVES IN THE LEGISLATORS. THE PARTISANSHIP POPS UP ON BOTH SIDES AND IT'S BEEN A CHALLANGE IN OTHER STATES BECAUSE THEY BACK DEMS. WE RANK 43 IN PAY, NEAR THE BOTTOM OR LAST IN CLASSROOM SPENDING. IT'S AN ISSUE THAT RESONATES WITH A LOT OF PEOPLE.

TED SIMONS: WE SHOULD MENTION WE HAD DEMOCRAT LEADERSHIP ON THIS WEEK WE WERE TALKING ABOUT A LOT ABOUT THIS. DEMOCRATS SAYING THEY ARE NOT AT ALL SURPRISED BY A TALK OF A STRIKE.

SEN. STEVE FARLEY: IF YOU LOOK AT WHAT IS HAPPENING IN ARIZONA. A LOT OF TEACHERS HAVE GONE PERMANENT STRIKE. A THOUSAND TEACHERS HAVE LEFT SINCE THE BEGINNING OF THIS SCHOOL YEAR. OTHER STATES ARE TREATING US LIKE A FARM TEAM OFFERING OUR TEACHERS 10 OR $20,000 SIGNING BONUSES, AND THEY ARE LEAVING. OTHERS ARE JUST LEAVING THE TEACHER POSITION BECAUSE THEY CAN'T AFFORD TO LIVE ON TEACHER PAY.

TED SIMONS: BASICALLY BUT A STRIKE HOW WOULD THIS GO OVER IN ARIZONA?

DIANNA NANEZ: SO A STRIKE IN ARIZONA IS UNLIKELY. THEY ARE UNSUCCESSFUL THOSE WE HAVE HAD. THEY RARELY ARE. IT’S HARD TO GET THE SUPPORT HARD TO GET THE ORGANIZATION. IT'S THE KEYWORD, WE HAVE HEARD TEACHERS USING THAT. WE ARE HEARING FROM OUR MEMBERS THAT THIS COULD BE A POSSIBILITY, BUT WE ARE NOT ORGANIZED YET. FULL DISCLOSURE, TEACHERS ORGANIZING SAVE OUR SCHOOLS AND FUNDING FOR SCHOOLS, THEY ARE BUILDING TO THIS MOMENT. MY MOTHER IS A RETIRED TEACHER. THE MORES INSITUTE ARIZONA IS 50TH FOR ELEMENTARY AND CLOSEST FOR 50TH FOR HIGH SCHOOL TOO. ONE KEY THING IS THIS MOMENTUM MOVING AND THE LAST COUPLE YEAR, IS THE PUBLIC WITH THEM? THE GOVERNOR MADE EDUCATION HIS PRIMARY ISSUE. SO WHAT KIND OF COMPROMISE CAN BE MADE BY THIS.

HOWARD FISCHER: THERE ARE OTHER MOVING PIECES WITH THIS. DO WE WAIT FOR THE 2020 ELECTION IN DO WE INCREASE THE TAX, THE OTHER PIECE OF IT IN OUR GOVERNOR THE CONVERSE CAN ALSO BE TRUE. YOU CAN'T DO ACADEMIC PERFORMANCE WITHOUT THE MONEY. THAT'S THE LINK THAT HASN'T BEEN MADE.
MIKE SUNNUCKS: THE TEACHERS HERE LOOK AT WHAT HAPPENED IN WEST VIRIGINIA AND HOPE THAT THIS IS SOME ORGANIC SOCIAL MEDIA WAY. #METOO IS A PERFECT EXAMPLE OF THAT. IT WENT NATIONAL AND YOU SAW LOTS OF CASES COME OUT AND THE WORLD HAS CONNECTED VIA FACEBOOK AND NATIONALLY. THE MEDIA CAN FOLLOW THESE THINGS. THEY HOPE THAT'S A GAME CHANGER FOR THEM. I KNOW ONE GROUP THAT WOULD LIKE TO SEE TEACHERS GO OUT ON STRIKE, THEIR STUDENTS. THEY WOULD LOVE TIME OFF. INSTEAD OF GOING TO SCHOOL.

HOWARD FISCHER: EXCEPT FOR THE SMALL FACT THAT THE LAW REQUIRES 180 DAY AS YEAR, YOU HAVE TO GO ON SATURDAY.

DIANNA NANEZ: A LOT OF MESSAGES THAT THE PUBLIC IS READING AND YOU SEE PEOPLE ARE READING ON FACEBOOK AND TWITTER AND YOU SAW, I HAVE A MASTER'S IN EDUCATION. I HAVE BEEN A TEACHER 20 YEARS, AND I CAN'T AFFORD TO FIX MY CAR OR I CAN'T AFFORD MY MEDICINE. WHAT WE MAY NOT SEE IN ARIZONA IS A STRIKE, BUT WE MAY SEE THE CONTINUED PUBLIC PRESSURE AND THAT CONTINUE CONVERSATION AND YOU MAY GET A WIN BECAUSE ARIZONA COULD SAY WE DID THIS AND WE DIDN'T NEED TO STRIKE.

HOWARD FISCHER: ONE OTHER PIECE GOING ON, WE HAVE A GUBERNATORIAL ELECTION, THE ARIZONA EDUCATION ASSOCIATION ENDORSED MR. GARCIA. THE FEDERATION TEACHERS ENDORSED MR. FARLEY SO IF THIS ELECTION TURNS ON EDUCATION AND THE GOVERNOR FEELS VULNERABLE, IT WILL PUT A LOT OF PRESSURE ON HIM TO PULL OUT A WIN OF SOME SORT.

TED SIMONS: WE WILL SEE HOW FAR OF ANY TALKS ABOUT A STRIKE GOES. IT IS INTERESTING TO EVEN HEAR OF SUCH A THING. IT'S INTERESTING TO FIND A REPUBLIC OFFICE HOLDER LAWMAKER THAT WANTS TO GO AGAINST PRESIDENT TRUMP. THE ATTORNY GENERAL THINKS THAT THE PRESIDENT IS DEAD WRONG FOR DRIVER LISCENSES FOR DREAMERS BUT IT'S MORE OF A STATE'S RIGHTS ISSUE, ISN'T IT?

HOWARD FISCHER: IT'S A VARIETY OF THINGS. THIS GOES BACK TO 2012 WHEN OBAMA ADMINISTRATION WITH CHILDHOOD ARRIVAL, KIDS CAN STAY IF THE CAME AS CHILDREN AND THEY MEET OTHER CLASSIFICATION. JAN BREWER, WHO IS THE GOVERNOR SIGNED AN EXECUTIVE ORDER SAYING THEY DON'T GET LICENSES. WE HAVE A 1996 LAW THAT SAYS LICENSES ARE AVAILABLE ONLY TO THOSE WHOSE PRESENCE IS AUTHORIZED BY LAW. NINTH CIRCUIT SAID YOU DON'T GET TO DECIDE WHO IS HERE LEGALLY. MARK WANTED THIS IN THE SUPREME COURT. THE SUPREME COURT ASKED WHAT SAID WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT ALL OF THIS. THE ASSUMPTION IS WE ARE GETTING RID OF DACA. IT'S NOT REAL, HE SAID DON'T TAKE THE CASE, LEADING TO BRNOVICH SAYING, WHAT ARE YOU DOING?

TED SIMONS: YEAH AND AGAIN YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT A REPUBLICAN STATE OFFICE HOLDER TELLING THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION – “HEY WHAT ARE YOU DOING.”

MIKE SUNNUCKS: HE HASN'T BEEN JEFF FLAKE OR JOHN MCCAIN. I BELIEVE HIS WIFE HAS BEEN CAUGHT ON THE BENCH FOR SOME PRESIDENT STUFF. ITS KIND OF FITS INTO THE BIGGER IMMIGRATION DEBATE THAT HAS BEEN GOING ON DURING THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION AND NOW THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION. WHAT POWERS DO THE FEDS HAVE? WHAT POWERS DO STATES AND LOCALITIES HAVE? WE SEE IT PLAY OUT IN CALIFORNIA WITH THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION GOING AFTER SANCTUARY LAWS. WE SAW THIS WITH THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION GOING AFTER IMMIGRATION LAWS THAT BREWER HAD SIGNED. YOU WOULD EXPECT THEM TO SAY, WE DON'T LIKE DACA. BRNOVICH DOESN'T LIKE DACA. WE ARE ON THE SAME TEAM. I DON'T KNOW IF THIS FITS THE CALIFORNIA CASES. WHERE CALIFORNIA IS ARUGING WHAT ARIZONA IS ARGUING. WE HAVE RIGHTS HERE. TRUMP IS ARUGING WHAT OBAMA WAS ARGUING SAYING THIS IS A FEDERAL THING.

TED SIMONS: KIND HARD TO TELL THE PLAYERS WITHOUT THE PROGRAMING IN THIS ONE.

DIANNA NANEZ: WELL AND IT GETS CLASSIC AND AT END OF THE DAY, THE PLAYERS ARE THE PLAYERS AND WHOEVER IS IN POWER WANTS THEIR POWER. AND WHOEVER IS NOT IN POWER WANTS THEIR POWER AS WELL. WE WILL SAY THAT I THINK YOU HAVE A CLASSIC RESPONSE SURPRISINGLY DISMISSIVE. HOW DARE YOU, THIS IS OUR PARTY, THESE ARE OUR PEOPLE. HOW CAN YOU REACT TO US LIKE THIS? IT'S AN INTERESTING DYNAMIC. YES I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT, IT WILL PROBABLY PLAY INTO THE CALIFORNIA CASE AND ALSO ARIZONA IS ARIZONA. IT WOULDN'T MATTER WHAT THE CASE IS, WHAT THE ADMINISTRATIVE IS. IT IS OUR STATES RIGHTS.

TED SIMONS: I WAS GOING TO SAY VERY QUICKLY NOW, DOES THIS HURT MARK BRNOVICH AND HIS FUTURE POLITICAL AMBITIONS?

MIKE SUNNUCKS: THERE ARE A LOT OF TRUMP VOTERS OUR THERE AND THEY ARE THE REASON WHY JEFF FLAKE IS NOT SEEKING ANOTHER TERM. IF THE SOMEHOW ASSOCIATE BRNOVICH WITH BEING AGAINST TRUMP, THAT IS SORT OF A LEAP BUT THAT WILL HURT HIM. THIS SEEMS TO BE A ONE OFF, A LOT OF LEGAL INSIDER STUFF.

HOWARD FISCHER: YEAH. AND THE FACT IS HE'S TAKEN A STRONG POSITION AGAINST DACA AND ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS NOT ONLY AGAINST THIS CASE BUT MARICOPA COMMUNITY COLLEGES AND BOARD OF REGENTS IN TERMS OF TUITION FOR DREAMERS. HE'S PLAYING POP LIST ON THIS, PLAYING TO SOME OF THE ANTI-DACA, ANTI-IMMIGRATION FEELINGS.

TED SIMONS: WHO IS REPRESENTATIVE – ISALA BLOCK AND WHY IS SHE GETTING ARRESTED IN WASHINGTON D.C.?

HOWARD FISCHER: SHE COULDN'T GET ARRESTED HERE?

DIANNA NANEZ: ISALA BLANC, HER REPRESENTS TEMPE AND MESA, PARTS OF SALT RIVER. SHE WENT TO D.C. TO GIVE A STATEMENT AND JOIN ACTIONS AND PROTESTS WITH THE ORGANIZATION GROUP HERECALLED ‘LUCHA.’ LUCHA IS ONE OF OUR MANY GROUPS, GRASSROOTS GROUP HERE. WE HAVE SEEN THEM ACTIVE HERE FOR YEARS NOW AND SHE WANTED TO GIVE A MESSAGE BECAUSE SHE HERSELF HAD, HAD UNDOCUMENTED STATUS. SHE WAS NOT IN THE COUNTRY ILLEGALLY. SHE SAID SHE FEELS MORALLY OBLIGATED TO JOIN THESE YOUNG PEOPLE AND TO ADVOCATE FOR THEM. SO IN THIS PROTEST SHE JOINED OTHERS WHO HAVE ALSO GOT ARRESTED INTERESTED TO JOIN OTHER ORGANIZATION NICER IN THE GROUP. WE SEE THIS MORE AND MORE WITH POLITICIANS TAKING THE SHRIVEL RIGHTS MOVEMENT AND JOIN AND DO THAT.

HOWARD FISCHER: THERE IS NO RISK. ISALA BLANC IS IN A DISTRICT HEAVILY LATINO, HEAVILY DEMOCRATIC, AND IT GOT HER STATE AND NATIONAL PUBLICITY. WHAT IS THE DOWNSIDE OF BEING BUSTED FOR PROTESTING IN WASHINGTON IS KEY.

TED SIMONS: DOES IT MOVE NEEDLES? DOES IT MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE? BEFORE THE PROTEST? BEFORE THE ARREST?

MIKE SUNNUCKS: THERE HAS BEEN SO MUCH PROMISE OF ACTION AND NO ACTION, ON THIS I DON'T SEE REGULAR FOLKS -- I THINK THEY ARE TUNING OUT AT THIS POINT. I THINK DEMOCRATS LOOK AT THIS ISSUE AND THINK THEY GALVANIZE LATINO/HISPANIC VOTERS THEY ARE GOING TO TURN OUT. TURN OUT IN THE MIDTERMS. TURN OUT. THEY DIDN'T TURN OUT AGAINST TRUMP. THEY HAD EVERY REASON TO TURN UP AGAINST TRUMP. THEY KEEP HOPING. IT SEEMED TO HELP OBAMA WHEN HE SIGNED DA-CA IN 2012. THEY ARE HOPING FOR THAT. THEY ARE HOPING TO KEEP THESE THINGS, TO HIGHLIGHT AND TO ENERGIZE THE BASE, BRING ATTENTION TO IT, LIKE HOWIE SAID, FOR A PROGESSIVE THESE DAYS. THAT PROGESSIVE IN A DEMOCRAT PARTY IT'S A GREAT THING TO GET ARRESTED. SHE WAS UNDER AMNESTY UNDER REAGAN. THAT REPUBLICS WOULD TURN OVER.

TED SIMONS: DOES IT MEAN ANYTHING AS FAR AS HER FUTURE IS CONCERNED POLITICAL FUTURE? DOES THIS HELP HER?

DIANNA NANEZ: IT HELPS HER FROM WHERE SHE IS NOW. THIS PLAYS TO WHAT THE DISTRICT WANTS TO SEE. THIS PLAYS TO WHAT THAT DISTRICT WANTS TO SEE. THEY WANT TO SEE A LARGE PROGRESSIVE MOVEMENT. TEMPE IS KNOWN FOR THIS. TEMPE IS KNOWN TRYING TO “OH WE ARE GOING TO TAX THE PLASTIC BAG AND WE ARE GOING TO FIGHT THE STATE.” SO THIS IS THE SIMILAR NARRATIVE THAT HAPPENS. WHAT IT DOES FOR HER IS THIS. AND WHAT IT DOES FOR THOSE IN THOSE MOVEMENTS THAT ARE PUSHING FOR THIS IS THAT THEY DON'T WANT THOSE SUPPORTING DREAMERS AND THEIR CAUSE TO BE ON THE SIDELINES. THEY WANT THEM FRONT AND CENTER. THIS WOMEN IS A PARTICULAR GOOD ONE BECAUSE LIKE YOU SAID THE REASON THIS WOMAN BECAME A CITIZEN WAS THROUGH THE REAGAN AMNESTY. HER MESSAGE IS, WE HAVE DONE THIS BEFORE AS A COUNTRY AND WE CAN DO IT AGAIN.

MIKE SUNNUCKS: SHE HAS TALKED ABOUT THINGS ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGE. AND THAT IS SOMETHING THE BERNIE SANDERS PROGRANDSONSIVE LINK. THEY WANT TO SEE THIS. THAT'S PART OF THE REASON TRUMP WON, HE HAD THAT POPULIST WHAT THE GRASSROOT WANTS ON A LEVEL. I THINK DEMOCRATS ON THE PROGRESSIVE LEFT WANT TO SEE MORE FOLKS LIKE THIS AND WANT TO SEE A BIGGER DIVERSITY ON WHO WE ARE RUNNING AND WHO IS RUNNING FOR STATEWIDE OFFICES AND BIGGER OFFICES INSTEAD OF THE CAST OF CHARACTERS. THE SAME DEMOGRAPHICS.

TED SIMONS: REPUBLICANS ON THE PRO-BUSINESS RIGHT ARE TALKING ABOUT KILLING A TAX FOR SOFTWARE ACCESSED BY THE CLOUD.

HOWARD FISCHER: IT ISN'T EVEN THAT SIMPLE AS IN MOST CASES WITH TAX. HERE IS THE QUESTION: I GO IN. I BUY A WORD PROCESSING PROGRAM CALLED ‘WORD-PERFECT.’ YOU WOULD GET THE DISK IN THE BOX AND SHOVE THE DISK IN THE COMPUTER AND LOAD THE THING. THEN YOU MOVE TO THE POINT WHERE YOU CAN DOWNLOAD ‘WORD-PERFECT.’ THAT'S ON THE EDGE. NOW YOU ARE AT THE POINT YOU WANT WORD PROCESSING SOFTWARE, IT'S IN THE CLOUD. YOU ARE SENDING DATA BACK AND FORTH AND FORMATTING IT. THE QUESTION IS WHAT IS TAXABLE: THE OLD DISK WAS TAXABLE. IS THIS TAXABLE NOW? THE ARGUMENT BY THE PEOPLE THAT TRY TO QUOTE ON QUOTE CLEARIFY THE LAW SAY, “NO YOU ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO TAX INTERNET, STREAMING AND ALL THAT STUFF. CITIES ARE SAYING YES THEY ARE A PRODUCT AND WE GET TO TAX THEM.

TED SIMONS: YES AND WE HAD A DEBATE ON THIS EARLIER THIS WEEK ON THE SHOW AND PROPONENTS ARE SAYIING THIS CLEARIFIES WHAT CAN BE TAXED.


SEAN MCCARTHY SOT: IT'S CRAZY THAT WE ARE DECIDES WHAT TAXABLE ON THE INTERNET IS. WE DON'T HAVE ONE STATUTORY THING ON THE BOOKS FOR GOODS AND SERVICES.


TED SIMONS: WE SHOULD MENTION THAT THE OTHER SIDE WAS HERE AS WELL EXCEPT IT COULD BLOW A HUGE HOLE IN THE BUDGET. NO ONE KNOWS HOW BIG A REVENUE HIT CAN RESULT. MIKE, IS THIS DEFINING WHAT CAN BE TAXED OR SAYING, LETS WALKTHROUGH THE VALLEY AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS?

MIKE SUNNUCKS: AS LONG AS WE TAX FISCHER FOR DOWNLOADING THAT ‘WORD-PERFECT’ ON HIS COMMODOR COMPUTER. IT'S A GRAY AREA. IT IS A NEW WOLRD. WHAT'S STREAMING? WHAT IS A SERVICE AND WHAT'S A PRODUCT? I THINK WHEN YOU LOOK AT WHAT THE GOVERNOR IS TRYING TO DO, AND FOLKS BRINGING TECHNOLOGY BUSINESSES HERE, WE MISSED OUT ON AMAZON'S FINAL LIST. IT LOOKS GOOD IF WE ARE NOT TAXING THESE THINGS. WE DO NOT KNOW WHAT THE REVENUE HIT WILL BE. I THINK FROM THE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT CONSERVATIVE BUSINESS PERPECTIVE. IT LOOKS GOOD THAT WE ARE NOT TAXING THOSE THINGS EVEN IF WE DO NOT KNOW WHAT WE ARE TAXING.

TED SIMONS: THE OTHER SIDE SAYS WE KNOW. THIS IS FORMULATED AND THE FRAMEWORK IS THERE IN STATUTE.

HOWARD FISCHER: YOU HAVE LAWS THAT WERE WRITTEN IN THE 1980’S ABOUT WHAT IS A PRODUCT VERSUS WHAT IS A SERVICE. I GET MY HAIRCUT AND THERE IS NO TAX. AGAIN, IS IT A PRODUCT ANYMORE AND THAT BECOMES THE ISSUE? AGAIN, YOU USED TO WANT A MOVIE, YOU WENT TO THE BLOCKBUSTER AND YOU GOT A MOVIE. YOU DON'T DO THAT NOW. YOU HAVE NETFLIX YOU HAVE STREAMING. THE PROBLEM IS A THE LOSS OF REVENUE IS WE MOVE FROM PRODUCT TO SERVICES. WE HAVENT DEFINED THAT AND WE HAVE THE SUPREME COURT DECIDING WHAT THE STATES CAN DO.

TED SIMONS: THE CONCERN FROM THE OPPONENTS, WHEN YOU BUY A HAMMER WHEN YOU BUY A NAIL. THER IS NOTHING THAT SAYS HERE IS HOW MUCH YOU TAX HAMMERS AND HERE IS HOW MICH YOU TAX NAILS. THERE IS A FRAMEWORK, AN OVERARCHING TENT. THEY ARE DOING THIS FOR I CLOUD STUFF. ARE THEY WRONG?

DIANNA NANEZ: I THINK TO SAY WHAT WE HAD THEY WOULD BE COMPLETELY APPLICABLE TO WHAT WE HAVE NOW, WHEN WE CAN'T KEEP UP WITH TECH AND DIGITAL WOULD BE WRONG. MOST PEOPLE OUT THERE, WHAT I THINK, YOU KEEP HEARING ALL OF US USE THE WORDS, WE DON'T KNOW, OR WE ARE NOT SURE. WE HAVE THIS. IT SOUNDS LIKE THEY ARE STARTING THE CONVERSATION TO THE RESEARCH ABOUT WHAT THEY DO NEED TO DO.

HOWARD FISCHER: THE OTHER PROBLEM, THIS IS NOT UNUSUAL FOR ARIZONA. TECHNOLOGY ALWAYS RUNS AHEAD OF THE LAW WHICH IS WHY WE HAVE A BILL, CAN YOU PAY YOU’RE STATE TAXES IN BIT COINS OR THINGS LIKE THAT? EVERYTHING IS DIFFERENT NOW. WE ARE STILL WORKING SORT OF WITH A HORSE AND BUGGY TYPE OF THING.

TED SIMONS: ALRIGHT ABOUT 30-SECONDS LEFT, CAN THIS HELP REVENUE BY CLARIFYING WHAT CAN BE TAXED?

MIKE SUNNUCKS: I THINK WE DON'T KNOW WHAT WE ARE TAXING OR WHAT IT COULD HELP OR HURT. IT'S UNKNOWN. LIKE HOWIE SAID THE TECHNOLOGY IS AHEAD OF US. WHEN WE WENT OUT AND BID FOR TESLA’S BIG 6-BILLION DOLLAR PLANT. WE LOST THAT IN PART BECAUSE NAVADA GAVE THEM THE STORE IN TERMS OF TAX BREAKS. IT DIDN'T HELP THAT THEY WEREN'T SELLING CARS. IF WE PASS THE TAX AND APPLE COMES AND SAYS, WHAT ARE YOU GUYS DOING? POTENTIAL UNNOPES THERE.

TED SIMONS: ALRIGHT I GOTTA STOP IT RIGHT THERE. GOOD TO HAVE YOU HERE. THANKS FOR JOINING US. COMING UP MONDAY ON "ARIZONA HORIZON," JOIN US FOR AN INFOCUS DIRECTOR. IN-FOCUS EDITION WITH DOCTOR CONNIE MARIANO, THE FIRST WOMAN TO DIRECT THE WHITE HOUSE MEDICAL UNIT. DR. CONNIE MARIANO, MONDAY AT 5:30 RIGHT HERE ON ARIZONA HORIZON.
TED SIMONS: TUESDAY: WE'LL LOOK AT HOUSING PRICES IN THE VALLEY.
TED SIMONS: WEDNESDAY: HOW STUDENTS AFFECTED BY MASS SHOOTINGS ARE LEADING PROTESTS TO DEMAND CHANGES TO GUN LAWS.
TED SIMONS: THURSDAY: ART DETOUR CELEBRATES 30-YEARS OF ART-GALLERY OPEN HOUSES.
TED SIMONS: AND FRIDAY: IT'S ANOTHER EDITION OF THE JOURNALISTS' ROUNDTABLE.
TED SIMONS: THAT IS IT FOR NOW. I'M TED SIMONS. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US. YOU HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND.

Mike Sunnucks: Phoenix Business Journal
Dianna Náñez: Arizona Republic
Howard Fischer: Capitol Media Services

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