Allegations of a Rigged Election

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Presidential candidate Donald Trump is alleging that the upcoming presidential election is “rigged.” Former state elections director Joe Kanefield will talk about how elections are kept secure.

TED SIMONS: TONIGHT'S DEBATE COULD VERY WELL FIND DONALD TRUMP REITERATING WHEN CONCERNS THAT THE ELECTION IS IN HIS WORDS, RIGGED. HOW LIKELY IS VOTER FRAUD OR A RIGGED ELECTION? WE PUT THOSE QUESTIONS TO JOE KANEFIELD, AN ATTORNEY WITH BALLARD SPAHR, WHO SPECIALIZES IN ELECTIONS. THANKS FOR JOINING US. DONALD TRUMP, THE ELECTION IS RIGGED. YOUR THOUGHTS?

JOE KANEFIELD: I JUST DON'T AGREE. I -- OUR ELECTIONS IN THE UNITED STATES ARE INCREDIBLY SECURE, LAYERS UPON LAYERS OF SAFEGUARDS BUILT INTO THE SYSTEM FROM THE TIME THE VOTERS REGISTER TO THE TIME THEY SHOW UP AT THE POLLS TO THE TIME THAT THE BALLOTS ARE TABULATED. THE PROCESS IS VERY TRANSPARENT, VERY OPEN. AND SECURE. SO I'M JUST NOT SEEING WHERE THE RIGGING COULD POSSIBLY OCCUR.

TED SIMONS: QUOTES FROM DONALD TRUMP. NEWS MEDIA AND DEMOCRATS ARE PLANNING THE ELECTION FRAUD. HOW WOULD THAT HAPPEN?

JOE KANEFIELD: I DON'T KNOW. I REALLY DON'T KNOW. YOU KNOW, THERE HAVE BEEN ISOLATED INCIDENTS OF FRAUD, SOMETIMES WITH EARLY BALLOTING BUT THE KIND HE'S TALKING ABOUT IS WHEN SOMEONE SHOWS UP AT THE POLLS AND CLAIMS TO BE SOMEONE ELSE OR A DECEASED PERSON VOTES. THE SYSTEM WAS DESIGNED TO PREVENT THESE FROM HAPPENING. THESE WERE ISSUES RAMPANT IN THE 19TH CENTURY BUT THE UNITED STATES HAS DONE A GOOD JOB OF PREVENTING VOTER FRAUD.

TED SIMONS: ANOTHER QUOTE IS VOTER FRAUD IS ALL TOO COMMON… WHEN HE SAYS THIS, IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU DISAGREE, IT'S NOT TOO COMMON.

JOE KANEFIELD: IT'S NOT COMMON AND THESE ISSUES CAME UP IN 2004. THE ARIZONA VOTERS PASSED A LAW THROUGH THE CITIZEN INITIATIVE THAT REQUIRED EVIDENCE OF CITIZENSHIP AT THE TIME THEY REGISTER AND THAT THEY PRODUCE IDENTIFICATION AT THE POLLS, FOR YEARS WE WERE IN THE COURTS BATTLING OVER ALLEGATIONS THAT THESE WERE LAWS DESIGNED TO PREVENT SOMETHING THAT WASN'T HAPPENING. AND, YOU KNOW, THE FACTS LARGELY PLAYED THEMSELVES OUT THAT WAY. THE COURT THE UPHELD THE LAWS AND SAID THE STATES CAN PUT THESE SAFEGUARDS IN PLACE TO GUARD AGAINST THE POTENTIAL FOR FRAUD BUT WAS IT A RESPONSE TO WIDESPREAD FRAUD THAT WAS HAPPENING? NO, AND THAT MADE ITS WAY TO THE UNITED STATES SUPREME COURT IN 2008 AND THE COURT ACKNOWLEDGED IT WASN'T HAPPENING ON A WIDESPREAD BASIS.

TED SIMONS: CAN FRAUD ON A VAST SCALE EVEN HAPPEN? IT DEMANDS SUCH WIDE SPREAD COORDINATION. DOES COMMON SENSE DICTATE THIS COULD EVEN HAPPEN?

JOE KANEFIELD: IT CAN'T HAPPEN IN THE UNITED STATES, ESPECIALLY BECAUSE OF THE WAY OUR ELECTIONS ARE DESIGNED. IT'S A VERY DECENTRALIZED SYSTEM. UNLIKE OTHER COUNTRIES WHERE THE NATIONALS GOVERNMENT RUNS THE ELECTIONS AND PRINTS BALLOTS AND TABULATES THEM. THE U.S. AND ARIZONA, HERE IN MARICOPA COUNTY, IT'S DONE AT THE LOCAL LEVEL AND ARIZONA, AT THE COUNTY LEVEL. USUALLY ADMINISTERED BY ELECTED OFFICIALS, REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS FOR THE MOST PART. AND AS I MENTIONED, THE SYSTEM HAS GOT SAFEGUARDS IN PLACE SO THERE CAN BE MONITORS THAT WATCH THE TABULATION AND IT WOULD BE VERY DIFFICULT TO CONDUCT SOME KIND OF WIDESPREAD FRAUD ON THE SYSTEM.

TED SIMONS: WHAT ABOUT VOTING SYSTEMS BEING HACKED? CAN THAT HAPPEN?

JOE KANEFIELD: IT'S CERTAINLY POSSIBLE. AND I SAY THAT WITH CAUTION BECAUSE WE ALSO DEALT WITH THESE ISSUES, BECAUSE AFTER THE 2000 ELECTION, THE CONGRESS PASSED -- WHICH REQUIRED THERE BE AN ELECTRONIC VOTING SYSTEM TO ACCOMMODATE DISABLED VOTERS AND THERE WAS CONCERN THAT THESE ELECTRONIC SYSTEMS COULD BE HACKED AND THE RESULTS CHANGED AND EVEN ONE OFFICIAL IN FLORIDA, THEY WERE ABLE TO HACK IT. THAT'S TRUE OF ANY COMPUTER SYSTEM AND OUR SYSTEM IS REFLECTIVE OF MOST SYSTEMS THROUGHOUT THE UNITED STATES, IS INCREDIBLY SECURE THAT NO ONE WILL GET THAT ACCESS. EVEN THE ELECTION OFFICIALS THAT WORK WITHIN THE SYSTEM DON'T HAVE THAT KIND OF ACCESS AND TO MAKE SURE THAT THE SYSTEM WORKS WE HAVE POST ELECTION HAND COUNTS SO IN ARIZONA, WE RANDOMLY SELECT PRECINCTS AND BATCHES OF EARLY VOTES AND WE'LL HAND COUNT THEM TO MAKE SURE THAT THE MACHINE TABULATED AND THAT WOULD CATCH THOSE KINDS OF HACKING IF IT OCCURRED.

TED SIMONS: ARIZONA, WE'RE PAPER-BASED HERE, WE USE MACHINE BUT IT'S PAPER BASED. NOT EVERYWHERE AROUND THE COUNTRY PAPER-BASE THOUGH -- I HEARD GEORGIA WAS ALL ELECTRONIC NOW.

JOE KANEFIELD: YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW. I REMEMBER THAT BEING AN ISSUE, BUT -- AND IT'S AGAIN, THESE WOULD LARGELY BE CONCERNS ABOUT THE ELECTRONIC SYSTEMS LIKE THIS ARIZONA ARE USED BY DISABLED VOTERS, VERY FEW VOTES ARE ACTUALLY CAST ON THE SYSTEM BUT HERE WHENEVER SOMEONE VOTES ON ONE OF THOSE MACHINES A LITTLE PAPER RECEIPT MEMORIALIZES THE VOTE. THERE'S A PAPER TRAIL IF ANYONE NEEDED TO AUDIT IT AND THEY DO AUDIT IT.

TED SIMONS: LIKE AN ATM MACHINE. THE IDEA OF MONITORS AT POLLING PLACES. DONALD TRUMP WANTS HIS SUPPORTERS TO BE THERE AND MONITOR FOR FRAUD. WHAT WOULD THEY BE LOOKING FOR?

JOE KANEFIELD: WELL, THE PARTIES ARE ABLE TO HAVE MONITORS IN THE POLLS PLACES. THEY COORDINATE THROUGH THE PARTY CHAIR WITH THE ELECTION OFFICIALS. THEY CAN BE INSIDE OF THE VOTING AND CAN'T INTERFERE BUT LOOKING FOR ANY PROBLEMS. SOMETIMES ISSUES COME UP, ADMINISTRATIVE ISSUES, NOTHING THAT IS INTENTIONAL BUT THEY'RE THERE TO FLAG THOSE THINGS. IN TERMS OF SENDING PEOPLE DOWN TO THE POLLS TO JUST MONITOR, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO -- EXCEPT IF THEY'RE VOTING, THEY CAN GO IN AND VOTE AND LEAVE. IN ARIZONA LIKE MOST OTHER STATES WE HAVE A 75-FOOT ZONE THAT SURROUNDS THE POLLING LOCATION. YOU'RE NOT TO ENTER THAT AREA UNLESS YOU'RE AN ELECTION OFFICIAL OR A VOTER.

TED SIMONS: CAN YOU YELL TO YOUR HEART'S CONTENT AS LONG AS YOU'RE 75 FEET AWAY?

JOE KANEFIELD: SURE.

TED SIMONS: THAT'S AS CLOSE AS THE SUPPORTERS WOULD GET, IT'S NOT LIKELY TO SEE MUCH IN THE WAY OF FRAUD FROM THAT VANTAGE POINT.

JOE KANEFIELD: NO, THE ONLY ISSUES THAT CAN COME UP AND HAVE COME UP - AGAIN I RAISE THIS WITH CAUTION BECAUSE IT'S RARE. BUT I CAN REMEMBER A SITUATION WHERE AN INDIVIDUAL SHOWED UP OUTSIDE OF THE ZONE AND THEY HAD A SIDEARM, THEY COULD BE THERE, BUT SOME VOTERS FELT INTIMIDATED BUT THERE WAS NEVER ANY THREATS OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT. AND IF THERE ARE, THE COUNTY SHERIFF WOULD BE THERE IN A HEARTBEAT TO MAKE SURE NO ONE WAS INTIMIDATED. OUR LAWS ARE REALLY SOLID IN THIS AREA AND DESIGNED TO PREVENT THIS STUFF FROM HAPPENING AND I THINK OUR ELECTIONS ARE WELL RUN.

TED SIMONS: IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE WHAT THE CANDIDATES SAY TONIGHT ABOUT THE RIGGED ELECTIONS. THANKS FOR JOINING US.

Joe KanefielD: Former state elections director

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